Better than nothing rust treatment?

[svenedin]

PS: My boot gets wet when it rains. The lid seal is Ok I think. Could it be hinge gaskets? When my gloveboxes were getting wet (and ruined) it was wiper bezel gaskets.

Stephen

Depends where the wet is.
If the wet is at the rearmost part of the boot, check the rubbers around the Bumper Studs.
I know you've had the car a long time, so at least they will likely be there, but I actually found that at some point, Basil's were omitted. The outer Ferrule was there (PAN109 on ESM), but not the inner Grommet (PAN109A on ESM).

Thanks. The water ends up at the bottom of the boot right at the back. It gets wet just from standing in the rain (which is a rare thing for this car). I will investigate. Bumper stud rubbers very likely to be perished.

Stephen

[philipkearney]

Definitely look at the hinge gaskets but I've also seen odd drips from behind the script badges and number plate light. Unlikely that these will let in large volumes of water but it can all add up. The grommets around the wiring to the back lights can degrade and let water in too but this is usually when driving, not stationary.

[svenedin]

Definitely look at the hinge gaskets but I've also seen odd drips from behind the script badges and number plate light. Unlikely that these will let in large volumes of water but it can all add up. The grommets around the wiring to the back lights can degrade and let water in too but this is usually when driving, not stationary.

I check all of these suspects. On a dry day I'll try to find the leaks with a plant sprayer.

Stephen

[svenedin]

Does anybody know what the black substance is on the underside of my bonnet?

The chap from ESM came today to take the car away for blasting. We discussed the bonnet which needs painting but decided to leave the inside. There's no rust there and the black stuff (which may be some kind of bituminous substance looks like it would be a nightmare to get off. We think this is the original factory finish.

Stephen

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[mowogg]

My saloon was painted under the bonnet in black paint -my turned out to come off with white spirit, albeit it was a slow process. Perhaps try a few solvents to see if it can be removed?

[svenedin]

My saloon was painted under the bonnet in black paint -my turned out to come off with white spirit, albeit it was a slow process. Perhaps try a few solvents to see if it can be removed?

Thanks that's useful to know. If it is some kind of bitumen that makes sense that it would dissolve in white spirit. I am quite happy for it to stay but I might like to tidy it up a bit. It doesn't seem to be paint as in the few places that it has fallen off it has left the blue paint underneath (Smoke Grey) totally undamaged.

Stephen

[svenedin]

Now the car has gone I have immediately started refurbishing the engine bay contents. I dropped the radiator off for repairs today. Now I am going to have a go at getting a pair of Lucas 9H horns working. There are some videos on how to take the horns apart on YouTube and the Lucas manual for correctly setting the points gap is also available. I have about half a dozen Lucas 9H horns none of which work but I am confident I can get at least one high and one low to work! Some of the Morris 1000's had two horns, I think the export ones. Mine only had one 9H high which stopped working a long time ago. A pair of horns in parallel is quite a big current going through the horn switch so I am going to use a Lucas 6RA relay. I even have the correct purple with yellow trace cable (horn to relay) as this was something I had intended to do years ago. If I have success with taking the horns to bits I will make another thread. A replacement modern horn is cheap but they just don't sound the same.

Stephen

[svenedin]

The car is due back in a few days. Hurray! Now I have the somewhat daunting task of putting it back together again. I did take lots of pictures and I also put things in labelled boxes. I have the workshop manual to help with the wiring. The engine is not back for another 5 weeks so I Don't have to do anything in a hurry. I will be able test stuff even without the engine. I can test all of the lights, the fuel pump, wiper motor, power to the coil etc. Exciting and daunting in equal measure. I hope to have everything ready so that I can put the engine back in over the course of a few hours.

Stephen

[svenedin]

Just a few pictures of where things are now. Engine is not back until end March.

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[ManyMinors]

That looks very smart . Have you fitted a new wiring loom? A good idea while the car is all apart.
The underseal on the inside of the bonnet was not a standard "factory finish" but undersealing was a popular extra cost option when these cars were new and spraying the underside of the bonnet was supposed to reduce noise....
I don't think the paint was ever very well applied under the bonnet, so very few cars have survived with smart original engine bays. Giving it all a good repaint now is a good plan. It is almost impossible once the engine is back in - and if you one day have the exterior paintwork resprayed you'd probably regret not doing the engine bay when you had the chance.

[svenedin]

That looks very smart . Have you fitted a new wiring loom? A good idea while the car is all apart.
The underseal on the inside of the bonnet was not a standard "factory finish" but undersealing was a popular extra cost option when these cars were new and spraying the underside of the bonnet was supposed to reduce noise....
I don't think the paint was ever very well applied under the bonnet, so very few cars have survived with smart original engine bays. Giving it all a good repaint now is a good plan. It is almost impossible once the engine is back in - and if you one day have the exterior paintwork resprayed you'd probably regret not doing the engine bay when you had the chance.

Thank you. Yes the car has a new wiring loom. Just now I got to the point that I put the battery in place and left it on charge. I was very tempted to connect the battery and see if everything works but it needs re-checking before that and I'm too tired now. I will be very nervous on the first test expecting a bang and the smell of escaping Lucas smoke......

I did one modification which was to fit one of the extending bonnet stays instead of refitting the original. Very useful but I wouldn't have bothered if it hadn't been that I had already removed the old stay.

This is part 1 of what is intended to be a 3 phase restoration. First the engine bay, bonnet, inner wings, front wings, bulkhead, windscreen surround etc and an engine rebuild (phase 1). Then phase 2 Winter 2025/2026 with doors, rear wings, boot lid. Finally phase 3 Winter 2026 with interior and a new hood.

Stephen

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[svenedin]

I did do a test and connected the battery. Absolutely noting. My first suspect was that the battery earth was not making a connection to the car body in the battery box due to the new paint. This is indeed the case, the multimeter set to continuity shows open circuit between the battery earth terminal and a good earth on the car body (the front Armstrong damper bolts).

Any tips for establishing a good earth when the car is freshly painted and naturally I want to do the minimum damage?

I am considering using the Dremel with a small grinding stone to just take the paint off in the holes where a bolt goes through and a small area around the hole where the washer sits.

Somebody also gave me a tip to use the battery charger to do the initial checks rather than the battery i.e connect the charger to the battery connectors but not have the battery connected.


Stephen

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[geoberni]

The bodywork area directly under the earth strap terminal MUST be clean bare metal.
It's the only way it's ever going to work.
The same rule for every other Earth connection to the bodywork, such as the headlamp Earth Points on the inner wing.
After they are assembled, apply a thin coating of grease or petroleum jelly (aka Vaseline).
Never rely on just the thin edge of the hole to provide contact.

In my early RAF aircraft career, when I was still getting my hands grubby actually working on them, I encountered many 'poor earth' faults.

There's one I'll always remember which is reminiscent of the issue you now have....

1980, a brand new Tornado, fresh from it's delivery flight from the factory at BAe Warton, and the pilot reported a fuel temperature gauge under reading. The Pilot had 2 fuel temp gauges, LH and RH tanks, both should read the same.
If anyone is wondering why they had them, it's because the oil in the engine auxiliary gearboxes was cooled by the fuel tanks.

Not to bore you with the ins and outs of the power distribution system, I'll cut to the chase and say that after about 30 mins I'd located the problem.
Aircraft electrical circuits earth to dedicated 'Earth Terminal Blocks' these in turn have a much heavier gauge cable connecting all those thin cables to a large Earth Stud on the airframe. Just like cars do.
Earth studs are clean bare metal and after assembly they are given a layer of Blue paint to both identify them and keep all moisture out.

What I found was that on the production line, the person applying the brush load of Blue paint had got out of sync with the person assembling the Earth Stud.
Both of them must have been half asleep because the Blue Paint was under the Terminal, preventing a good earth connection.!

How the aircraft managed to pass it's final tests and inspections, and the full air test by the BAe pilot before the RAF collected it, I have no idea!

When I got Basil I went all over him, cleaning all earth points and applying a thin film of grease.

A clean earth connection is a happy earth connection...

[svenedin]

Yes. I have abraded the area around the battery earth connection to bare metal. I now measure 0.1 Ohm (the resistance of the meter leads). I have done the same to the earth point on the bulkhead where the flasher can is also located and I have checked the resistance of the earthing points on the inner wings for the sidelights and headlights.

Nothing went bang, no escape of Lucas smoke. However at this stage I have minimal operational systems.

Working: Fuel pump, Fuel gauge, Brake Lights, Hazard lights (these have their own dedicated flasher and are powered by permanent live).

Not working: No lights on the dashboard of any kind, sidelights, tail lights, indicators, number plate lights or headlights.

All 3 fuses are fine (2x 35 amp in fuse box and 10 amp in separate fuse holder as for later cars). Fuse box is brand new as is the loom.

I will investigate further at the weekend. I have circuits working that are permanent live and those switched by the ignition. I need to try to narrow down where the fault is. Obviously a bad connection or connections are possible and also it must be remembered that the engine bay was sandblasted and so grit may have got in to various things (e.g the lighting switch but that doesn't explain the indicators or the absence of any lights on the dashboard)

I will have to follow the wiring diagram and trace the faults systematically. For example with the lights, I have tested Brown/blue at terminal A1 of the RB106 and there is 13.5v between that terminal and earth. The next thing will be to find Brown/blue at the lighting switch and measure there. Same thing with the indicators.

Stephen

[geoberni]

Seems you have a plan.

I would expect some quirky faults at the stage illustrated by your photo, because you don't have all the earths connected.
I don't know where all the factory original earth points were, I know my car has some seemingly random 'local' earth points inside the Dash, but for example you've got the Earth Connection of the RB106 floating in mid air in the photo. There are 2 cables in that Ring tag, just as there are 2 on the RB106 'E'.
Logic dictates that something from elsewhere is earthing to 'E' connection, both 'earth connections' then go off to the Ring Tag where another earth cable joins it, so that Ring tag in mid air has got at least 3 different earth functions...

Unlike your car, Basil has a single connection at the Ring Tag, but 4 cables at 'E'.
Although a SII, he was rewired with an early Indicator harness around 25 years ago.

Unfortunately the Minor Wiring diagrams don't show where individual Earths connect or interconnect; which really hinders tracing earths.
I do know that the Wiper Motor Earth is via that Terminal E interconnection, as it's a common error made on Alternator Connections where the Earth is disconnected.

[rocco]

Thank you. Yes the car has a new wiring loom. Just now I got to the point that I put the battery in place and left it on charge. I was very tempted to connect the battery and see if everything works but it needs re-checking before that and I'm too tired now. I will be very nervous on the first test expecting a bang and the smell of escaping Lucas smoke......

I did one modification which was to fit one of the extending bonnet stays instead of refitting the original. Very useful but I wouldn't have bothered if it hadn't been that I had already removed the old stay.

This is part 1 of what is intended to be a 3 phase restoration. First the engine bay, bonnet, inner wings, front wings, bulkhead, windscreen surround etc and an engine rebuild (phase 1). Then phase 2 Winter 2025/2026 with doors, rear wings, boot lid. Finally phase 3 Winter 2026 with interior and a new hood.

Stephen


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What's the dark green thing that looks like a heat sink bolted to the lower part of the O/S inner wing?

[philthehill]

It appears to be a Lumenition Optronic ignition control box.
I have the black performance edition fitted to my Minor and very well it works too.

[svenedin]

It appears to be a Lumenition Optronic ignition control box.
I have the black performance edition fitted to my Minor and very well it works too.

Yes it is exactly as Phil says. It is located in that somewhat strange place so that it is hidden by the elephant's trunk air intake pipe. It is an expensive system that has stood the test of time and is extremely reliable. I helped my father install this system on his Mercedes in the 1970's. Mine is not the performance system as that is negative earth only and I do not want to change from positive earth.

Stephen

[svenedin]

Seems you have a plan.

I would expect some quirky faults at the stage illustrated by your photo, because you don't have all the earths connected.
I don't know where all the factory original earth points were, I know my car has some seemingly random 'local' earth points inside the Dash, but for example you've got the Earth Connection of the RB106 floating in mid air in the photo. There are 2 cables in that Ring tag, just as there are 2 on the RB106 'E'.
Logic dictates that something from elsewhere is earthing to 'E' connection, both 'earth connections' then go off to the Ring Tag where another earth cable joins it, so that Ring tag in mid air has got at least 3 different earth functions...

Unlike your car, Basil has a single connection at the Ring Tag, but 4 cables at 'E'.
Although a SII, he was rewired with an early Indicator harness around 25 years ago.

Unfortunately the Minor Wiring diagrams don't show where individual Earths connect or interconnect; which really hinders tracing earths.
I do know that the Wiper Motor Earth is via that Terminal E interconnection, as it's a common error made on Alternator Connections where the Earth is disconnected.

Thank you. In fact, things had moved on from my photograph and I had fitted the earths such as the large control box earth on the bulkhead.

I was very tired yesterday and I should have called it a day much earlier.

This morning I fixed two of the faults in less than the time it took to drink a cup of coffee.....

Fault 1: no lighting. Caused by improper installation of the brown/blue wire on terminal A1 of the control box. The blade on the control box terminal had slid in between the insulated sleeve of the female Lucar connector and the spade. Simply fitting this correctly and there was light!

BUT then a fault of first position of lighting switch turns on headlights and second position turns them off. Caused by connections to the wrong terminals at the switch

Fault 2: no indicators. Very simple, faulty Lucas flasher can which did not like being taken off and re-installed. Flasher can replaced with another very elderly original flasher can and hey presto we have indicators.

Fault 3: No ignition warning lamp with ignition key in first position (ignition on). I am still puzzled by this. I removed the ignition switch and checked the connections against the wiring diagram. All OK. I tested the warning light bulb. Bulb OK. I tried another bulb anyway. No difference. I measured the voltage between the brown/yellow wire and earth with the ignition on: 12.55v. Then the white wire at the bulb holder: voltage so similar that effectively no current can flow through the bulb. Also checked white wire terminal at fuse box voltage and brown/yellow wire at terminal D at control box. Same thing. Voltage between yellow/brown wire and white wire 0.3v so obviously the lamp does not light. Still baffled.

Stephen

PS: I find the wiring diagram in the workshop manual too small to read in places and also the terminal numbers on switches. Taking a photo with the mobile phone and enlarging it is very helpful. Better than a magnifying glass.

[svenedin]

Thinking about why the ignition warning light will not illuminate when the ignition is tuned on I am thinking that this is because there is no dynamo installed. If there was a dynamo installed then one of the brown/yellow wires at the D terminal would be connected to the dynamo and ultimately to earth via the dynamo body. This is obviously not the case with no dynamo installed. Solution to test ignition warning light would be to connect the larger of the two brown yellow wires at the D terminal (the one that goes to the dynamo) to earth. Or just wait until the engine and dynamo are back in the car!

Everything else is working fine. Headlights are very much brighter than I ever remember them being due to having pristine electrical connections!

Incidentally, the proper tools for removing the bezels on Lucas switches are very useful to have when doing this kind of work. The ones I bought years ago come as a set of two. The smaller one is for switch bezels and the large one is for the ignition switch bezel. People use screwdrivers and pliers and then curse when these slip and gouge the dashboard. There's no way of being able to see the numbers on the switch terminals without removing them or having an identical switch in your hand to compare.

Stephen


Lucas switch bezel tools

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Terminal numbers on the back of lighting switch. Terminal one is handy empty terminal that is permanently live for feeding something like a hazard switch.

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Terminal numbers on back of ignition switch. Not easy to see!

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