Engine seizure - in the garage?

[oliver90owner]

If you have bridged the solenoid contacts, the starter motor should be energised, so you have an open circuit somewhere (the battery voltage would drop if starter current was flowing. Check voltage at the starter terminal while bridged. If the starter is not drawing current the voltage should be zero. If 12V the problem is at the starter motor, chassis earth or return connection to the battery.

Simple voltage checks do not necessarily mean everything is OK.

[Nickol]

If I used a HD starter cable between the engine and the neg earth battery terminal and the starter still did not energise when asked to, then this would prove that it is the starter - question mark?

[myoldjalopy]

Not necessarily. The starter may have jammed as before, for some reason. Take the starter out and bench test it to eliminate or confirm it is the culprit.

[Nickol]

I think this is the only way but will have to wait until after the merry xmas days. I am not really in a big hurry as the car is in winter hibernation. We have a few cm of snow lying around and it is a bit chilly. When working on the car I bring a hot water bottle with me to warm the hands inbetween.

[oliver90owner]

If I used a HD starter cable between the engine and the neg earth battery terminal and the starter still did not energise when asked to, then this would prove that it is the starter - question mark?

No! The starter motor is only one of several possibles. Any open circuit connection from the engine back to the battery could be the fault. Even the live connector from the battery is a possibility!

[geoberni]

I had a 'dead starter' a couple of years ago, and I thought it was the Start Pull . How wrong was I...
Full tale here: viewtopic.php?t=75196

[Nickol]

Update.

I have removed the starter from the car and tried testing it on the bench. Using the HD cable removed from the solenoid, a 12v car battery, I rested the flanged end of the starter on the negative terminal and touched the pos with the cable. After a few attempts it did briefly run, i.e. 1 to 2 secs. But after repeated attempts did not get it to spin again. So charged the battery overnight and tried this morning with proper jumper leads securely fixed. Nothing at all.

I will take it to a mechanic friend of mine tomorrow to test, in case there is something I am doing wrong. I cannot believe that a recon unit is a failure, I must have done something stupid.

[Nickol]

New update , new problem but getting there.

I have a replacement starter that works and installed it yesterday - it was just too cold to be working in an unheated barn recently. Anyway turned the key and nothing happened. then shorted the solenoid using a screwdriver and the starter whired into action as it should.

The solenoid is new and may be suspect like many copies these days but having looked at the wiring diagramme it occured to me that if it is not earthing properly, then the red/white starter wire from the ignition would never function. Is this logical? I did actually try directly with another wire connection from the live power terminal on the solenoid to the terminal of the red/white wire with no reaction at all.

Will check the earthing of the solenoid in the next couple of days.

[geoberni]

New update , new problem but getting there.

I have a replacement starter that works and installed it yesterday - it was just too cold to be working in an unheated barn recently. Anyway turned the key and nothing happened. then shorted the solenoid using a screwdriver and the starter whired into action as it should.

The solenoid is new and may be suspect like many copies these days but having looked at the wiring diagramme it occured to me that if it is not earthing properly, then the red/white starter wire from the ignition would never function. Is this logical? I did actually try directly with another wire connection from the live power terminal on the solenoid to the terminal of the red/white wire with no reaction at all.

Will check the earthing of the solenoid in the next couple of days.

Not something I have direct experience of with the Minor, since mine is a Pull Start.
But yes, from the diagram, the original factory fit Solenoid is illustrated as being earthed via it's casing and mounting bolts.
That may not be the same with any replacement Solenoid. Some makes/models do require a separate earth connection.
If it has only a single terminal, and a vacant terminal space on the opposite side (as shown), it is earthing via it's case.
But that does require a good metal to metal contact from mounting screws/bolts to the car body.
.

Solenoid.JPG (46.4 KiB) Viewed 2131 times

[svenedin]

I had a bad experience with a replacement square solenoid a few years back. It jammed in the on position. This meant that the starter motor continued to turn even with the ignition key taken out!!! It didn't take long for the starter motor to get very hot and start to smoke whilst I frantically rushed to disconnect the battery. I immediately fitted a quick battery disconnect after this and I then fitted a round Lucas SRB316 solenoid from ESM (with push button). Expensive but it has been no trouble. The standard (on late cars) square solenoid is SRB325

Stephen

[Nickol]

thankyou gentlemens - I will let you know how I get on.

[Nickol]

I made a continuity test this morning which failed. This was encouraging as it pointed to a solution. I then removed the bolts holding the solenoid, cleaned then up as well as the area in the bulkhead they screwed into. Replacing the solenoid and then the continuity test repeated. It passed
Reconnected the battery, turned the key and hey presto, starter whirred into action.

Success - which hopefully now closes the thread on a happy note.

[myoldjalopy]

Good news - and a nice, easy fix........we like them!

[geoberni]

Nice basic electrical fault. Easily sorted. Good result.