LED stop / tail bulbs and indicator bulbs

[jagnut66]

Hi,
So now they have been around for a while what's the verdict on LED stop / tail and indicator bulbs?
And which do people think are the best ones for our Minors?
I have used them successfully and found them to be brighter, with the only change needed being the flasher can to an electronic version.
But how have others found them in terms of use and longevity?
Best wishes,
Mike.

(PS: I'm not asking about headlamp bulbs in this post by the way, as I feel they are a completely different subject, partly due to the excessive 'brightness wars' seemingly being waged by modern car manufacturers, so lets leave them alone for this one.)

[MikeNash]

Well, I think the LED tail lights are very good advance on the old fashioned incandescent type. On the 11th of November I was driving south after dusk on the A34 just north of the M4 junction and saw a Minor well ahead of me. Its rear lights were clearly visible at a much greater distance than normal and so I suppose it had LEDs fitted. Normally, Minor rear lights are like a pair of dim fag ends but these fairly shone.
Can anybody recommend actual bulbs? I don't mean just the suppliers but the actual product? There seems to be so much about and so personal recommendation will be gratefully received.

[Steve Phillips]

So not just LEDs but since the 90s I've bought bright bulbs from Ron francis www.ronfrancis.com,

they last well and are much brighter than standard bulbs, most of what they offer are filament bulbs but they have some LEDs as well, they are not cheap but you do get what you pay for.

I can't remember the UK importer off the top of my head (it's a hot rod company in Essex) I have their details at work if anyone wants them. While I have no connection to Ron francis or the importer it's a brand I've bought from and always been happy with,

Ron francis makes lots of products apart from bulbs so worth a look at the website. I've bought their wiring harnesses / control boxes which are superb, the wire you get from them is printed at regular intervals with "stop lights" or " indicators" etc etc. it's a very well thought out system. Again not cheap but excellent quality.

Steve

[Andmurph]

I kitted out the pickup with LEDs from www.classiccarleds.co.uk
The results were in my opinion fantastic. I did all the bulbs except for the headlights. I decided to do this as we were towing a boat at night across the south coast including M27 and A31 through the New Forest. The front side lights are far brighter, I used part number 12VBA9HPWW around £6.50 each. These are warm white and very bright.
For the indicators I used part number 12vindsh. These again are super bright and around £8.50 each so not cheap. I used the replacement electronic relays from them as well. They work very well together but in my opinion the click is far quieter than the original. A 3 pin for indicator functions and a 2 pin for the Lucas hazard switch.
For tail lights I used part number 12vstc. A complete transformation through the glass beehive lenses and around £7.50 each.

I’m not affiliated to these guys but have used them for the Midget and Land Rover as well. Duncan is incredibly helpful and will answer questions quickly.

[mike1864]

I've always been a bit wary of using LEDs in place of incandescents where coloured lenses are involved.
I recall one Youtuber finding that his nice new red LEDs worked out dimmer than the originals.
I believe the problem can be that the lens is a filter, letting through a narrow band of the light spectrum (nominally red). This is fine with the high level (6/21W) and broad spectrum white light (and heat!) generated from a hot filament.
But I understand a red LED generates a single wavelength of "red". If this doesn't correspond with the same "redness" that the lens passband allows through, the result is a low transmission (ie it looks dim!)
Even fitting a "white" LED won't help, as it's not a real wideband white, but engineered to be three single spectrum spikes of red, green and blue. This fools the human eye into seeing white (though I suspect that anyone who's colour blind will see a "white" LED as coloured).
I was once stopped by the police as the officer considered my original (1956) stop/tail lens to be too orange.
So I reckon the LED and the lens need to be considered (engineered?) together.
But I stand to be corrected.

[Andmurph]

Installing white LEDs behind coloured lenses can produce odd colours. I’ve seen this when I replaced the dash lights with cool white LEDs. They are much better with blue, amber and green LEDs in the appropriate places.

My photo shows a clear red taillight illuminating the road and boast behind.

[mike1864]

I'd expect this, as a "white" LED is not really a broadband white spectrum, but a selected blend of red, green and blue "spot" wavelengths, which then then get differently attenuated by the coloured lens.
So the final effectiveness is a matter of experimentation. And luck!
For a tail lamp cluster, a clear lens would be the best way of accommodating a red or amber LED. This is what many modern cars have, but would look awful on our Moggies!

[philipkearney]

I'd very much recommend the led festoon bulbs for the SF80 trafficators from Classic Car Leds. I've fitted these to a few of my cars and they are very noticeable. Particularly useful for 2 doors and convertibles where the trafficators are lower down than the 4 door and the flashing bulbs help with visibility. Straight swap too.

[GavinL]

Not directly on topic, but I've recently fitted LED side lights on my older car (78 MG BGT), I've fitted higher intensity (200 lumen) side lights from classic car LEDs and wired them as daytime running lights- come on alone with ignition and stay on with the lights in sidelight and headlight .

Daytime running lights are usually 200-500 lumens, so the effect is similar to modern DRLs, and I intend fitting them in the same way when I get my Minor back on the road.

[King Kenny]

It was recommended to me by classic led to use red led's in the stop and tail light and amber in the indicators. Now that's what I call stop lights!

IMG_0999 i Large.jpeg (237.04 KiB) Viewed 5985 times

[philipkearney]

Now they do look bright. Fitting coloured bulbs seems sensible rather than white light and relying solely on the lense.

[ndevans]

This is a potential trap for the unwary. I'm not sure about the legal status of aftermarket LED bulbs-every single one sold in my local auto shop states explicitly on the pack that they are for off-road use only. Now I guess an MOT tester is unlikely to go to the trouble of removing a lens and checking whether a bulb is a road-legal LED or a filament bulb, but if you're in an accident and lightning is implicated then they might come under scrutiny. For that reason I ditched my LED bulbs and restored the filament bulbs.
That said, LED bulbs can be a lot brighter, and of course use less power.

[geoberni]

This is a potential trap for the unwary. I'm not sure about the legal status of aftermarket LED bulbs-every single one sold in my local auto shop states explicitly on the pack that they are for off-road use only. Now I guess an MOT tester is unlikely to go to the trouble of removing a lens and checking whether a bulb is a road-legal LED or a filament bulb, but if you're in an accident and lightning is implicated then they might come under scrutiny. For that reason I ditched my LED bulbs and restored the filament bulbs.
That said, LED bulbs can be a lot brighter, and of course use less power.

That's because either they don't know/understand the Regulations, or it's just too difficult for them to comprehend the various exemptions for classic vehicles...
It's all in The Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989 (as amended): https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1989/1796/contents
Feel free to check it. It's all about the 'Approval Mark' i.e. BS Kite marking or E Number marking.

For sidelights Schedules 2 and 10 state at para (5) a Requirement to have an 'Approval Mark' ...
Schedule 2 Pt 1 (Requirements relating to obligatory front position lamps and to optional front position lamps)
The effective date is :
A motor vehicle (other than a solo motor bicycle or a motor bicycle combination) first used on or after 1st January 1972

Schedule 10 Pt 1 (Requirements relating to obligatory rear position lamps and to optional rear position lamps )
A motor vehicle first used before 1st January 1974 is exempt

Regarding headlamps, Schedules 4 and 5 covering Dip and Main Beam respectively, the exemption for an 'Approval Mark' is a different date:

A motor vehicle first used before 1st April 1986:

It was this exemption date which the DVLA screwed up on a few years ago when they introduced the rule on LED headlamp conversions to Halogen Headlamps in the MOT Test.
They forgot their own regulations and brought it in across the board banning LED lamp conversions in Jan 2021, before issuing a further amendment in March, to include the above exemption date.

The LED Headlamp ban myth is still widely repeated on the internet, because they simply don't have a clue.
Halford for example.
Complete Garbage on the product description, and such incompetence infuriates me.
But there again, it's Halfords....
It's all in The Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989; it's not allowed, after the relevant dates.
No issues with older vehicles.

halfords.JPG (180.79 KiB) Viewed 5149 times

Note: edited to correct the relevant date for Front Position Lights

[ndevans]

DVLA have made a complete pigs ear of it then. So I can buy a lamp that explicitly states it is for off road use only, and legally use it in a car built pre-1974!

[MMT1968]

Hi,

Just to mention, I didn‘t change the stop/tail lights to LED so far but I changed the indicator lights to combined white and yellow LED bulbs and use a clear lens instead of the yellow lens now. The white LED is used as a reversing light switched by the reversing light switch in my T9 gearbox. Works perfectly. Only needs to change the flashing relais to an electronic one and different sockets for twin lights.

Chris

[geoberni]

DVLA have made a complete pigs ear of it then. So I can buy a lamp that explicitly states it is for off road use only, and legally use it in a car built pre-1974!

Basically yes.
I even made a small mistake in my post above, which I will try to correct if it lets me, getting myself befuddled switching between the different schedules. Schedule 2 for front marker lights is phrased differently and has a different date.
This is from Schedule 2 for Front Position Lamps

Front Position Lamps.JPG (112.63 KiB) Viewed 5124 times

Note that there is actually no requirement for Wattage or Intensity for any vehicle.
It's no wonder there are so many bright lights out there these days on LED equipped vehicles.