Oil pressure release removal

[Lizzy12]

Hi all ,
I know the changing of the spring or swapping the cup for a ball to lower the oil pressure reading has been discussed else where ,what I would like to know is do I need to drain the engine oil first .
Sorry to those in the know if this seems like a dumb question but I have l looked in the books and online and it does not say whether you can or can’t remove the pressure release valve spring on an engine with oil in it .
Thanks for any replies .

[philthehill]

You can remove the oil pressure relief valve without draining the oil from the engine.
It is a bit of a tight squeeze to get a socket or spanner on the retaining nut. It is easier if you loosen the starter motor.
Is there any particular reason you want to remove the spring or cup valve?

[Lizzy12]

Thankyou for the reply . I have had a new smith oil and water gauge fitted and it is giving very high readings especially if you bring the car up to 60 mph. So before going down the route of pulling the oil pump off I want to swap out the oil pressure valve to see if it is getting stuck at all

[philthehill]

Thank you for the explanation in reply to my question.
When you say high oil pressure what is high as indicated on the gauge?

[Lizzy12]

It was between 90 to 100 when car was doing 50 mph , ahhh.
Have found the cause, finally got the large nut that's holding the pressure release spring and cup out of the engine block . With the spring and cup removed (had to be persuaded out with a magnet ) there was obvious scoring on the cup to be seen so probably not moving well ,and the reason for that was found in the large nut that secures it all to the engine only 1 copper washer not 2 as per manual and inside the head of that large nut someone had put 4 small metal washers which were pushing the spring and the cup in as far as possible on the valve .
Why , I have no idea.. anyway new spring and new cup and 2 copper washers on the large nut as per book . Have taken the car out for a long drive and even at 70 mpg car now does not read more than 70 -75 lb pressure. On tick over on warm it is reading between 30 and 40 lb now .

[philthehill]

I am glad that you have got to the bottom of the problem.
Putting the small washers between the outer face of the spring and the inside of the cap is a well known way of boosting oil pressure. It appears that too many washers were used.
I do not know what manual/book you are referring to but there should only be one copper washer under the head of the cap.

[geoberni]

I do not know what manual/book you are referring to but there should only be one copper washer under the head of the cap.

Phil
As I know not a lot about such things, and having the parts book open on my computer, I noticed a change of washer?
What do you know about 2 Fibre Washers becoming 1 Copper Washer?

There's no change point given. This illustration is the 10MA engine, the 9M only illustrates a single item 31, but then in the accompanying text lists item 31 twice, with the same details, 2 Fibre Washer but replaced by a single Copper washer.
The copy of the Van parts book I have, which shows the 803 engine, has the same info.

Oil Relief.JPG (107.17 KiB) Viewed 1286 times

[philthehill]

geoberni
Thank you for the parts list illustration above with the reference to the fitting of two fibre washers Pt No: 2K4982.
The BMC Morris Minor workshop manual also shows the fitting of two thin washers which I presume are fibre.
I have no idea of the change over point from fibre washer to copper washer occurred. I cannot recall having come across a fitment of two fibre washers. All the washers I have encountered have been copper both plain and compression type (similar to the washer used for the sump drain plug).
Whether fibre or copper makes no difference so long as it does not leak.
If a copper washer is used then it should be only the one washer.
I personally would only use copper washers in this application.
Phil

[Lizzy12]

Thankyou for the replies have double checked the car since putting the two copper crush washers on the domed nut and doing it up properly all be it very difficult to do in such a tight space .
The reason for putting two on is because a couple of Morris minor forums it says to use two fiber or copper washers. And in the Haynes manual it also says the same . It does not say 2 fiber or 1 copper washer.
I will keep an eye on it and if I start to see any seepage then it will painfully be removed and one washer removed and either a little snipped of the spring or an adjustable domed nut used.
The pressure is now down and the engine running very, very well now .

geoberni
Thank you for the parts list illustration above with the reference to the fitting of two fibre washers Pt No: 2K4982.
The BMC Morris Minor workshop manual also shows the fitting of two thin washers which I presume are fibre.
I have no idea of the change over point from fibre washer to copper washer occurred. I cannot recall having come across a fitment of two fibre washers. All the washers I have encountered have been copper both plain and compression type (similar to the washer used for the sump drain plug).
Whether fibre or copper makes no difference so long as it does not leak.
If a copper washer is used then it should be only the one washer.
I personally would only use copper washers in this application.
Phil

[philthehill]

Thank you for the information above but I shall continue to use one non crushable copper washer and set the oil pressure by adjusting the length of the relief valve spring and confirming that pressure by using a known Smiths oil pressure gauge.
Be aware that even using an adjustable oil pressure relief valve the spring in most cases has to be shortened.

[geoberni]

Thankyou for the replies have double checked the car since putting the two copper crush washers on the domed nut and doing it up properly all be it very difficult to do in such a tight space .
The reason for putting two on is because a couple of Morris minor forums it says to use two fiber or copper washers. And in the Haynes manual it also says the same . It does not say 2 fiber or 1 copper washer.

I've not been a big fan of Haynes manuals since the 1970s, when they were a necessary evil because obtaining actual Workshop Manuals was an expensive business, if the relevant manufacturer would even let them be brought by 'non-trade' people.
They had a reputation for having small errors and omissions.
This would be a typical example; knowing that the washers changed from Fibre to Copper, but perhaps not knowing the change in quantity, or just poor grammar in the writing.

The Morris W/S Manual doesn't mention the change, they probably didn't consider it important enough to reprint the page.
.

Oil Relief 2.JPG (82.99 KiB) Viewed 1214 times

.
In a Dealership, it would play out as follows:

Engineer goes to Stores and asks for the washer for the Oil Relief Valve.
Man in Brown Coat asks which engine, and flicks through the relevant pages in the Parts Book
Gets to the right page, runs his finger down the page and sees the entry for Fibre Washer x2, with the note at the side saying 'use 6K 431' instead which is indicated as Qty 1.
So no need to change the W/S manual.

Haynes meanwhile get the info of the change from Fibre to Copper, but not the change from 2 to1.

[Lizzy12]

Thankyou for the replies yes I did do research in the large workshop manual and Haynes and in mmoc on line forums and other places before putting 2 copper washers on and it seems plenty state that is how to now do it . As a fail safe because I never take just one persons word for something , trained or not , I have a spare washer in case it does develop a seepage issue and needs to come off again , I also ordered different strength springs and a ball just in case there was issues getting the pressure down and I had to snip a coil or 2 off a spring .
The oil pressure now sits well within the guide lines even when maintaining higher speeds . And the car is driving much much better. It would seem someone be that a home mechanic or a trained mechanic at some point had the bright idea of adding the extra washers inside the large nut to increase the pressure with no instruments or gauges to indicate how ridiculously high the oil pressure was now that the spring and cup were pushed so far into the valve pressure seat that it would never do its job . one can only assume at some time in its life the oil warning light may have flicked on .

[geoberni]

Thankyou for the replies yes I did do research in the large workshop manual and Haynes and in mmoc on line forums and other places before putting 2 copper washers on and it seems plenty state that is how to now do it . As a fail safe because I never take just one persons word for something

These days, anything online should only be trusted if there is a reliable and trusted source for it.

Before I retired, my work depended on knowing the 'truth' every time, particularly in regard to laws and regulations.
I would spend many an hour checking things because one of the biggest issues is plagiarism copying from website to website to website.

That's why if I'm categorically stating something, I will always endeavour to provide reference to my source of the info.