1959 VIN number location

[mjh1]

Hello all,
I'm trying to locate the VIN number of my 1959 2 door minor and have located 2 plates screwed into the top right hand side (offside, RHD Car)
Are these the ones as the DVLA are insisting that the VIN should be "pressed" into the body shell.
TIA

[ManyMinors]

The chassis number is stamped into the plate screwed onto the bulkhead as you have described. On a car of that age, it is also stamped into the bulkhead just a few inches away from there (and as shown in the factory workshop manual) as well as in this photo. It might take a little finding but it should be present.

[mjh1]

Mine has a 4" hole there that looks like it was used for the fresh air vent?

[ManyMinors]

That sounds like a later car or maybe a large modification? Can you post a photo?

[mjh1]

Here you go! (image needs rotating 90 degrees anticlockwise)

[ManyMinors]

Oh! It doesn't look as though you're going to find any number there.
As you say, somebody might have cut a crude hole for an air intake if the later "fresh air" heater has been fitted - or somebody wanted to eliminate the chassis number.

[mjh1]

Hmm,
That is curious.
Are there any tell tale signs which would help identify the age of my car?
I've read there may be a stamped panel in the floor near the brake master cylinder?

[geoberni]

Seems the car has been modified for the later 'fresh air heater . A biggish job that few owners would bother to have done but it was possible.
On such cars the factory location of the stamped number was the driver's floorpan. Of course this is often lost with rusty floor replacement.
Might be worth checking the floor though.

As you can see from this factory fit original, the rear bulkhead was shaped to fit.

Screenshot_20241005-183120_Firefox.jpg (30.59 KiB) Viewed 1417 times

The plate with the chassis no/ VIN is ringed. The ones the other side are unrelated and of no interest to DVLA.

Screenshot_20241005-192839_Firefox.jpg (85.51 KiB) Viewed 1417 times

[mjh1]

Thanks very much geoberni

[ManyMinors]

Might be worth checking the floor though.

The chassis number won't have been stamped into the floor on this car. That feature was only started during 1965, some time after the large air intake was introduced and clearly this car did not have that

[geoberni]

Might be worth checking the floor though.

The chassis number won't have been stamped into the floor on this car. That feature was only started during 1965, some time after the large air intake was introduced and clearly this car did not have that

Well according to Ray's book, the move of the number to the floor occurred around end Sep 1963, not 1965; unsurprisingly to coincide with the introduction of the ruddy great hole in the bulkhead for the new 2.8Kw heater, which prevented the number being in the original position.
Take it up with Ray Newall if you think it incorrect.

I was inferring that if the latter heater modification was carried out by a Dealership, then as part of the job, knowing that they had destroyed the original Number, they just might have acted responsibly and replicated the change of location to the latter position.
Or they could have been gash bar-stewards and not bothered.

Hence my clear caveat... 'Might be...'

[ManyMinors]

Might be worth checking the floor though.

The chassis number won't have been stamped into the floor on this car. That feature was only started during 1965, some time after the large air intake was introduced and clearly this car did not have that

Well according to Ray's book, the move of the number to the floor occurred around end Sep 1963, not 1965; unsurprisingly to coincide with the introduction of the ruddy great hole in the bulkhead for the new 2.8Kw heater, which prevented the number being in the original position.
Take it up with Ray Newall if you think it incorrect.

I was inferring that if the latter heater modification was carried out by a Dealership, then as part of the job, knowing that they had destroyed the original Number, they just might have acted responsibly and replicated the change of location to the latter position.
Or they could have been gash bar-stewards and not bothered.

Hence my clear caveat... 'Might be...'

I wouldn't consider "Ray's book" to be a fully authoritative "Bible" of Morris Minor history. It is a nicely produced publication which contains much useful information but it also contains mistakes and errors. That is one of them. I have no idea why the chassis number stamping was moved from the bulkhead to the floor but it had nothing to do with the fresh air heater - the hole for the air intake being some distance from the chassis number stamping. I know that the number was still pressed into the bulkhead in 1965 because I have a car of that age - built nearly 2 years (and more than 60,000 cars!) after the heater update you mention. The chassis number begins 1109XXX. A local club member also has a 1965 car with a bulkhead stamped chassis number. Both cars are very unmolested and original, built and registered a few months apart. Both having the later style heat formed vinyl interior trim, black faced speedo, flick switches and crushable sunvisors of that period. As his car is more accessible than mine currently, I have attached a photo of that - clearly showing the air intake hose and the stamped chassis number.
Feel free to pass on this knowledge to Ray Newell (note correct spelling) if you wish to. He can put it in his next book

I seriously doubt that the hole in our friend's bulkhead was created by a responsible dealership . It is the wrong size and in the wrong place and is one of the most shabby bits of metalwork I've ever seen!

Never mind, we can't agree on everything and must always be open learn new information.

The owner may be interested to know that every bit of glass in his car and every Lucas electrical part will be dated. This can give great clues as to the age of his car. Also, the numbers on the other side of the bulkhead and in the floor of the engine bay (if not rusted away already) should include the body number. This can be used to date the car pretty accurately. The Gaydon museum might have information on that too?

[geoberni]

Fair enough. .. every day's a school day....
I do like verified details, and yours is certainly verified.
Where possible I like to check things against the likes of the Parts Books, i.e. Change Points, but of course where the stamp was done isn't listed in there...
I agree the hole is pretty ragged, but then the earlier bulkhead wasn't designed to have the hole cut in it.

I'm not even sure a dealership would carry out the alteration, but the country was awash with private garages that I'm sure would try if asked...

The Heater with Trunking is listed in the AKD 3542 as Kit - fresh-air heating and demisting with reference to the 'Approved Accessories - Salesman's Guide'...

It does seem an elaborate way to disguise some skulduggery...