Morris Minor Pickup 1965 not starting

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Letham
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Re: Morris Minor Pickup 1965 not starting

Post by Letham »

Hello,

I can get the headlights to come on, the interior light works as does the horn. I can't get indicators to work yet. Unable to see if brake lights work until I get someone to help me.
I got a new ignition key - but that made no difference.
I can't see any isolation switch. Please see attached 2 photos.

Guess need to check out the electric connections to the ignition switch or potential change the switch. Need to find where my multimeter is. Still find this strange since it was running when delivered.

thanks everyone
Linda
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Bill_qaz
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Re: Morris Minor Pickup 1965 not starting

Post by Bill_qaz »

The white and red wire arrowed on the starter solenoid is the trigger from your ignition switch it should have 12v when key is turned to start position. If no volt meter put a test light poss on the wire and other side to batt negative, when key in start position bulb should light.
Makes use the terminal is clean also.
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Re: Morris Minor Pickup 1965 not starting

Post by Bill_qaz »

As an aside when you get problem solved I would recommend sorting this dodgy connector and the wire below looks damaged.
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Letham
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Re: Morris Minor Pickup 1965 not starting

Post by Letham »

Hi Bill,
thanks for your 2 replies. Yes I will give that a try re the starter. Hopefully I will get some time to do that this weekend.

Yes will get the dodgy connection fixed as well.

Cheers
Linda
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Re: Morris Minor Pickup 1965 not starting

Post by Bill_qaz »

This terminal A1 is where the ignition switch gets its feed check you have 12v there, the box will have an internal connection from A which is the battery feed from from the other spade terminal on the starter solenoid in my previous picture.If both A and A1 have 12v you will then need to check its getting to the ignition switch.
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Letham
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Re: Morris Minor Pickup 1965 not starting

Post by Letham »

Hi Bill,

Thanks again for your assistance, made some progress but now lost the light for tonight.

The battery is full charge 12v. Both A and A1 are getting 12v. I didn't get anything from the red/white wire on the starter solenoid. I tried the cable end itself, the connector on solenoid and when connected - nothing. I did press the red button in the top centre of the solenoid and this did turn the engine over but didn't start.

As you said previously need to check out the ignition switch itself - is this an easy thing to check?

Huge thanks
Linda
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Bill_qaz
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Re: Morris Minor Pickup 1965 not starting

Post by Bill_qaz »

Does the key definitely turn to the spring loaded start position? That's when power should go to the solenoid terminal and energise like you pushing the button.

There is a screw each side of the speedo accessible through a hole in each glove box liner.
Just slacken don't fully unscrew, you can then pull the speedo out and you will be able to access the ignition switch and its wires.

This may help https://youtu.be/IZYKJ4xCBqs?si=Th7PUBOmzEQiSDzR
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Re: Morris Minor Pickup 1965 not starting

Post by myoldjalopy »

Linda, you say "I can get the headlights to come on, the interior light works as does the horn. I can't get indicators to work yet."
The lights and horn work whether or not the ignition is on, but the indicators will only work if the ignition is switched on. It does suggest a fault in the ignition switch or associated wiring.
You also say that the engine turns over when you press the solenoid button, but doesn't fire up. So the battery sounds OK.
Given all this, I would run a wire from the non-earth battery terminal to the feed connection on the coil (not the connection that takes the low tension lead to the distributor) to by-pass the ignition switch and then press the solenoid again to see if the engine fires (may need some choke). *Make sure the car is out of gear first!* If it does, that would also suggest a fault in the ignition switch or its wiring.
Having said all that, there is something about the coil with that rubber sheath and tape that looks odd. Its not clear to me from the picture how the spark gets from the coil to the dizzy. There is normally a length of lead (the 'king lead') from the coil to the dizzy cap and I can't quite see from the picture how this connection is made.
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Re: Morris Minor Pickup 1965 not starting

Post by myoldjalopy »

Just to add, you will need to make sure the float is full of fuel before by-passing the ign. switch as the pump will not work without ignition switch on.
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Re: Morris Minor Pickup 1965 not starting

Post by simmitc »

To test the solenoid, connect a wire to the terminal on the side where the white/red wire goes. With handbrake on. gear in neutral, and everything clear of potentially moving parts, touch the other end of the wire to the non-earthed battery terminal. If the solenoid clicks and the engine turns over, the you have a working solenoid and the fault must be in the ignition switch/wiring. If the solenoid does not click and/or the engine does not turn over, then the solenoid is faulty.

Remove the cover from the coil and remove the white sire from the coil LT terminal. Using a meter or test lamp, check for 12v on the wire. It should be 0v with the ignition off and 12v with the ignition on. Reconnect the white wire.

Remove the white/black wire from the other LT terminal. Check for continuity to earth - continue checking as you turn the engine slowly by hand. With the points closed, there should be continuity, points open, no continuity. Reconnect the white/black wire.

Complete the above three test and report back.
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Chief
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Re: Morris Minor Pickup 1965 not starting

Post by Chief »

I'm curious as to why the starter solenoid is all the way down there, is that a pickup thing? (the hole in the bulkhead suggests to me no). Surely that's a terrible place in regards to water splash up while driving?

Also, maybe it's to do with that switch on the speedo, but I wonder what that lucas inline fuse is for.
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svenedin
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Re: Morris Minor Pickup 1965 not starting

Post by svenedin »

Chief wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 6:45 pm I'm curious as to why the starter solenoid is all the way down there, is that a pickup thing? (the hole in the bulkhead suggests to me no). Surely that's a terrible place in regards to water splash up while driving?

Also, maybe it's to do with that switch on the speedo, but I wonder what that lucas inline fuse is for.
My solenoid is there as well. That's normal. Inline fuse is normal too and is for the sidelights/tail lights/number plate light. It's not a pickup thing.

The earlier solenoid was round and had a button for operating the solenoid underneath. The later one is square with a small button on the upper side. Later square ones have no button.

I have always wondered why there was a need to be able to turn the engine over without the ignition on from under the bonnet. Maybe it is a way of testing the solenoid or perhaps they were prone to sticking. I do not know but I have always found it to be a cool quirk and I missed it when I had to fit a late square solenoid without the button. Since then I have fitted the older type which is still available new with the button.

Stephen

Here you see the solenoid and inline fuse in the same positions
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1969 1098cc Convertible “Xavier” which I have owned since 1989.

Stephen
simmitc
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Re: Morris Minor Pickup 1965 not starting

Post by simmitc »

Chief wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 6:45 pm I'm curious as to why the starter solenoid is all the way down there, is that a pickup thing?
That's the normal position for the solenoid as opposed to the pull switch on the earlier cars. I've never found it prone to water etc when driving.
svenedin wrote: ↑
I have always wondered why there was a need to be able to turn the engine over without the ignition on from under the bonnet.
Invaluable when checking for sparks, running compression test, looking for leaks and all sorts of other diagnostics and servicing tasks 8)
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svenedin
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Re: Morris Minor Pickup 1965 not starting

Post by svenedin »

simmitc wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 9:32 pm
Chief wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 6:45 pm I'm curious as to why the starter solenoid is all the way down there, is that a pickup thing?
That's the normal position for the solenoid as opposed to the pull switch on the earlier cars. I've never found it prone to water etc when driving.
svenedin wrote: ↑
I have always wondered why there was a need to be able to turn the engine over without the ignition on from under the bonnet.
Invaluable when checking for sparks, running compression test, looking for leaks and all sorts of other diagnostics and servicing tasks 8)
Yes that's true. It is handy to be able to do these things without needing an assistant. I suppose I realised that which is why I missed not having the button on a modern square type replacement and found the round type is still made with the button.

Stephen
1969 1098cc Convertible “Xavier” which I have owned since 1989.

Stephen
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Chief
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Re: Morris Minor Pickup 1965 not starting

Post by Chief »

simmitc wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 9:32 pm That's the normal position for the solenoid as opposed to the pull switch on the earlier cars. I've never found it prone to water etc when driving.
Ah, of course all the Minors I'm used to are pull starters so that explains why I've never seen that before.
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Re: Morris Minor Pickup 1965 not starting

Post by Letham »

Hi,

Only managed to get back to looking at my Moggie this week.
It is with great delight that I managed to get it to start. What was the fault - the key. I thought that from the start as I wasn't convinced it turned the ignition switch correctly.

I bought replacement ignition switches (2 different types) and with a bit of detective work I put a key from one of the new switches into the switch in the pickup and straightaway I heard a total different noise and it was clear it was working totally different. Connected the battery and managed to fire it up for the first time! So chuffed.

Now I can work on checking the clutch and brakes as they feel they need some attention.

Thanks for all your help - I probably will be back in touch again requiring some assistance.

Cheers
Linda
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Bill_qaz
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Re: Morris Minor Pickup 1965 not starting

Post by Bill_qaz »

So had they given you the wrong key?
Old cars don't always have the same key for ignition and doors, as locks get changed over the years. My ignition key also fits my boot lock but not the drivers door.
I put a notch in the ignition key head so easy to identify.
Glad you have hot it sorted :tu1:
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Re: Morris Minor Pickup 1965 not starting

Post by myoldjalopy »

I think on my car the whole driver's door was replaced at some point, together with the handle and lock. So I have two keys as well. Easy to tell the difference though as the door key has an oblong head and the ignition/boot a rounded head.
But good the pickup problem is solved. A nice, easy fix too - we like them!
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Re: Morris Minor Pickup 1965 not starting

Post by Letham »

yes guess they gave me wrong key. I had tried everyone they gave me. I even queried with them at the time. They advised the key to use is the one that is well worn. Main thing is it is up and running. Starts on the turn of the key everytime now.

Just noticed exhaust needs to be fixed as the clamps holding it up aint working - need to get a replacement set.

I have a question - is petrol bought from garage ok to use? It is the unleaded version. Is there something I need to do or use other petrol?

cheers again
Linda
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Re: Morris Minor Pickup 1965 not starting

Post by myoldjalopy »

Best to use E5 petrol, E10 has a higher concentration of ethanol which is not good for our old cars, it will start to dissolve rubber components in the pump and fuel lines. I don't know if your cylinder head has been re-built to take unleaded petrol, but if not, you might want to consider having this done, or to use a lead additive.
This article may help as well: https://www.dandyclassics.com/welke_ben ... _oldtimer/
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