Purolator - how tight?

[myoldjalopy]

At this point I don't think any further tightening is going to help. I would be taking the oil pipe out of the head again to check nothing has become cross threaded anywhere.
It may also be that tightening the filter bolt has caused the top of the canister to pierce the rubber ring seal - which could explain why the canister is not equidistant from the head all the way round. Take it all apart and see if the filter bolt is threading into the head properly (just on its own - you will be able to see this better with the canister out of the way.

[svenedin]

If something has been damaged, there is a Purolator assembly for sale here. It doesn't have the internal plate or spring but you already have those: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/204650846536 ... R4rcs_m4Yw


It's got the blocked oil filter switch in the head which your car may or may not have the wiring for (mine does)

Remember that when you screw that steel adapter into the allow head of the filter you must be careful on two counts. A) it is easy to cross thread and if you continue to tighten you will destroy the threads B) because the adapter has a taper thread if you over tighten it then the filter head may crack and split. I believe the part number is TCZ106 or TAM2119. My parts book shows the part but does not list it.

Stephen

[Chief]

Thanks for the link however given the current issues I think if I did go for another head I'd try through one of the restorers that sell second hand parts as opposed to risking eBay again.

[svenedin]

Thanks for the link however given the current issues I think if I did go for another head I'd try through one of the restorers that sell second hand parts as opposed to risking eBay again.

OK. In that case you might want to try Minor Parts of Oxford.

If you were local I'd help you with this but you're a long way away!

Could your local brach give you a hand?

Stephen

[daveejhitchins]

Thanks for the link however given the current issues I think if I did go for another head I'd try through one of the restorers that sell second hand parts as opposed to risking eBay again.

During my restoration (ongoing) of my Traveller, I converted to screw-on type oil filter. This leaves me with all the bits that were removed. If you'd like these parts (?) you can have them for the price of postage. PM me if you're interested.

Dave H.

[svenedin]

I did a bit of research into the Purolator.

It seems there were 3 different canisters for the same filter head: A) Die cast (?what material) 27H1717 B) Steel 17H1169 C) Aluminium alloy 17H8892

In addition, the O-ring that sits under the collar on the outside of the canister at the bottom is listed as different for the steel and cast canisters versus the aluminium alloy one. A ) O-ring for cast and steel canisters 508380 B) O-ring for alloy canister 17H2281

The aluminium canister does not use a collar but a washer under the head of the centre bolt.

Anyway, I would think that the aluminium canisters are significantly more prone to being distorted by over-tightening of the through bolt so care must be taken not to do so.

See this parts diagram (this also shows the adapter between oil pipe and filter head):

https://www.somerfordmini.co.uk/oil-fil ... -oil-pipes

Stephen

[Chief]

I know both the cannister that came with the head and the one from ESM were steel due to the surface rust

I notice on the mini link it also warns you to use the correct collar in addition to the correct o-ring, but as you can only get one type of collar these days it's a moot point.

I decided to (and have) message daveejhitchins and take him up on his kind offer since at least that way it's a known working, leak free example.

[svenedin]

I know both the cannister that came with the head and the one from ESM were steel due to the surface rust

I notice on the mini link it also warns you to use the correct collar in addition to the correct o-ring, but as you can only get one type of collar these days it's a moot point.

I decided to (and have) message daveejhitchins and take him up on his kind offer since at least that way it's a known working, leak free example.

Good idea. The aluminium canister (sump) uses a washer instead of a collar and a different O-ring

[myoldjalopy]

Yes, I have an aluminium canister and a washer on my care. Last time I changed the filter I noticed the O-ring was pretty much destroyed. As I needed to be back on the road I hadn't time to order a new one so I made one out of a tap washer. I had to enlarge the hole to enable the bolt to slip through but it did the job perfectly, despite its diameter which means it protrudes around the circumference of the washer.

[svenedin]

Yes, I have an aluminium canister and a washer on my care. Last time I changed the filter I noticed the O-ring was pretty much destroyed. As I needed to be back on the road I hadn't time to order a new one so I made one out of a tap washer. I had to enlarge the hole to enable the bolt to slip through but it did the job perfectly, despite its diameter which means it protrudes around the circumference of the washer.

That is good to know. I have both types. The one on the car currently is steel but my spare is aluminium. When I do an oil and filter change I swap over the clean one and then I can clean up the filthy one at my convenience.

Stephen

[svenedin]

Just thought I would post on this thread as I have been sorting out some of my spare parts.

Of the two top seals that come with a new oil filter cartridge, it is the thinner walled seal that fits. The seal with a thicker wall does not fit. The thinner seals seat perfectly and will not fall out. In fact, it is quite tricky to get back out.

Stephen

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[Chief]

I'd just like to confirm that this is definitely the correct order (and correct parts) before I go fitting everything:

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Since the old head looks in places like it had been previously painted black and mostly removed, I'd always thought this was a paint streak, shame I didn't inspect it closer on arrival after purchase:

not_paint.JPG (121.52 KiB) Viewed 1194 times

Can it be brazed, or do I consider the head total scrap?

Thanks

[philthehill]

Unfortunately...............total scrap.

[svenedin]

I'd just like to confirm that this is definitely the correct order (and correct parts) before I go fitting everything:
oil_housing_parts.png


Since the old head looks in places like it had been previously painted black and mostly removed, I'd always thought this was a paint streak, shame I didn't inspect it closer on arrival after purchase:
not_paint.JPG
Can it be brazed, or do I consider the head total scrap?

Thanks

I just changed my filter today. I knew I should have taken a photo.

No that assembly order is not correct

It should go

Order the parts go on the long through bolt

1) Collar (convex surface towards canister)
2) O-ring
3) Canister
4) Spring
5) Metal Washer
6) Rubber Sealing washer
7) Pressure plate (the correct way up, the convex middle section upwards -it locates into the hole in the filter)
Circlip (if fitted, I've never seen one)
9) Filter element

So you see the metal washer and rubber washer are pushed up against the bottom of the pressure plate by the spring.

Hope that helps. Honestly, it becomes second nature. When fitting the through bolt does NOT need any significant force to make the whole assembly oil tight. If it leaks there's something wrong. Please don't over tighten it in those circumstances.

Stephen

[Chief]

So, ironically, after weighing up all the Pro's and Con's of the various heads that were for sale on eBay (at the time I was buying) and coming to the conclusion that one that had just been removed from a working engine and was in fully working condition (auction description) would be the best choice compared to all those with (judging by the photos) rusted on oil pipe adapters, turned out not to be the wise choice.

I did have the parts in the right order (bar that photo where I didn't notice I'd put the spring in out of order) but I didn't have the right parts as I never imagined the washers were incorrect because of it being sold as fully working. Thanks to svenedins' list I now know there shouldn't be two rubber washers (and I'd been so careful comparing the image of the Purolator on Moss).

Circlip (if fitted, I've never seen one)

https://www.tractorspareparts.co.uk/ley ... 3-circlip/
(one benefit of buying a new collar thinking the old chipped one was a cause of leaks - I got a swanky new circlip and o-ring , also since ESM are out of stock on some parts it's useful to know some tractors used the same Purolator parts. That site also has a reasonable postage charge, unlike others that were going to charge £10 postage for a 50p o-ring).

So on the negative side I overspent and ended up buying (and in some cases damaging) parts that I likely would never have required if I had noticed the crack in the head (or at least realised it was a crack) in the very beginning.

On the positive side I have to admit I learnt alot about what to do - and what not to do - when it comes to the oil filter housing. Hopefully when I get the cannister on everything will work out.

[svenedin]

Good. When I do an oil change and filter change I drive the car up on ramps. This makes it much easier and they are useful for many other jobs too so it may be worth investing in a pair. I remember you said your car is currently stuck in an awkward position though. I have a large plastic oil catch pan with a spout so I can pour the filthy old oil into a can to be taken to the recycling centre (save your empty oil cans). Once the sump has drained into the catch pan (have a cup of tea while it does) you can move your catch pan so it is still catching drips from the sump but it will also catch oil that will leak when you undo the through bolt on the oil filter. Then you tip any oil still in the filter canister into the catch pan and transfer the whole bottom filter assembly to a tray for disassembly and cleaning. I take it all apart on the tray (so as not to lose anything) and wipe all the parts clean with blue paper towel (as used in garages but kitchen paper is just as good if more expensive). Any muck remaining in the canister I flush out with carburettor cleaner. It is messy and many people advocate spin on filters instead but oil changes are a messy business anyway so I don't really see the point! I add a flushing additive before draining the oil and idle the engine for 20 minutes as per the instructions. It does help to dissolve more muck when changing the oil and it makes the oil thinner too so it drains better.

When re-fitting, wipe the new top seal in grease and carefully locate it in the channel. The grease will stop it dropping out. Make sure the top seal has gone into the channel all the way around. If you need to poke it with anything don't use anything sharp that might damage the seal. Hold the canister and the through bolt and carefully start the thread, you may need to push the canister up against the seal (this compresses the spring so there is some resistance). Do the bolt up hand tight and you are nearly there. Hold the canister so it doesn't spin and with a ring spanner tighten the bolt. It does not need to be that tight. Remember to put the sump plug back in and fill up with oil. Check for leaks before starting the engine. If no leaks start the engine. If there is a small leak tighten up a little bit more. When no leaks go for a run round the block and check again. Job done!

Stephen

[oliver90owner]

Hope that helps. Honestly, it becomes second nature. When fitting the through bolt does NOT need any significant force to make the whole assembly oil tight. If it leaks there's something wrong. Please don't over tighten it in those circumstances.

Stephen

I will add, from my experience re tightening similar oil filter arrangements (over a large number of years) is that on at least two occasions the poor sealing - which obviously may have required excessive tightening - was due to two sealing rings having been installed in the seal groove. Just a thought for those with no experience.

One leaky problem was down to me - I changed the fitted sealing ring but did not realise that another sealing ring had been installed as an ‘extra’ by the previous owner. On fresh service changes I always checked that the groove was clear. This may not be applicable to the minor filter housing, but definitely possible on larger installations.

[Chief]

I drive the car up on ramps.

I actually sold mine after I reversed my other car up them, over them, and put some nice new holes in my sills which then required the local garage to do some welding.

When re-fitting, wipe the new top seal in grease and carefully locate it in the channel.

That's one positive about the new filter head, no grease required - it's gripping the new (put in today) seal very tightly - to the point I don't look forward to the next time it needs to be replaced.

I have to admit I'm feeling more positive overall about getting the filter housing working this time, when hand tightening you could see the filter and housing correctly meshing together and the bolt felt snugly in place which I'd say is how others in this thread were describing how it should have been for me.

Currently the oil in there (which is about a year old now, but is basically unused) was what I was considering as sacrifical oil (the same goes for the current filter) as the consensus was that as the car hadn't had an oil change in many years (2011, the diff oil will be the same) it should be changed (I could only do a cold change) and then once it was able to get properly running fresh oil and filter could then be done.

Since the housing leak lost me over 1L of oil, this did mean I had to buy a new 4.5L bottle recently so I'm debating whether to keep what's left for once I can run the car properly again and change the oil, or do a cold oil change on the gearbox oil (which was last changed around 2013) and replace it at the same time as the engine, whenever that is as there's still no drivers seat re-fitted.

[svenedin]

You need a set of picks to easily get the old seal out. Very cheap, about £3 for a set. Use carefully because the filter head is alloy and can be scratched or gouged with a steel pick. Or you could use a pair of fine point tweezers.

Your oil is ancient at 13 years old and it may have chemically degraded and changed even if not used in a running engine. I’d get rid of it.

Stephen

[myoldjalopy]

Make sure the canister is not turning with the bolt as you tighten it up and the canister starts connecting with the top sealing ring or the ring can be damaged. Also, the canister should be roughly 3/4 full of oil before fitting, so you will need to keep finger pressure on the bolt head as you offer it up to avoid oil leaking out at the bottom.