brakes

[Chris Morley]

Les I've cleared up your post - it 's caused by allowing visual mode (or by not cancelling the pop-up message).

No one could seriously argue that drum brakes are as good as discs. They do have limitations and many people begrudge the need to keep them properly adjusted. However if you're willing to do this and if you drive with regard to their limitations then they are fine (unless you live up a mountain!). The cost of the initial conversion & the use of non-standard parts is a reason to keep the drum brakes as they are. However in the long term a disc conversion would save hours of work and might prevent you from having an accident, or reduce the effect of one. However it's not a cheap option and I bet most specialists would charge the best part of a £1000 to remove the drums & fit discs & a servo?

I've always thought that the Minor's tie bars are incredibly weedy. However would this upgrade simply transfer the higher forces into the chassis leg, eventually causing cracks?

[jonathon]

Chris,
I would be shocked if anyone was fitting my kits at £1000. Even with the latest price hike they should cost no more that £800 at the very most, unless opting for a servo which will obviously tip the scales.
Weve been fitting the uprated tie bar for 8 years now on all types of modified minors in both road and race applications with no ill effects. One must remember that when designing modifications,if they are done correctly, all of these incidentals are factored into the final equation. Its the so called cheap and cheerfull kits, that the lack of research is evident.

[bmcecosse]

Minor tie-bar is massive compared to a Mini one. The weak link for me is the wee bolt (in shear !) that holds it all together - and the front bracket on the chassis is not that strong either. The actual tie-bar is plenty strong enough - it's in tension after all and so there are no 'bending' forces on it. Problem comes when idiots jack the car up under the tie-bar - obviously it bends then.
Gee whiz ! £800 for disc brakes - need to go for a lie down. My drums cost a tiny fraction of that (with spare new linings too ) and took a couple of hours to fit. Bingo - superb brakes - and the pedal is not heavy either.

[Onne]

Where do you get replacement shoes for those 9 inchers then? Sierra pads are easy and available everywhere, and at a good price too. And that £800 pricetag is only when you can't do it yourself, which I am sure you can, knowing so much about minors and their internal organs

[jonathon]

BM, rather a mute comparison between the cost of a new disc kit including fitting and vat and a second hand set of parts fitted diy. Its clear you are not an advocate of most mods, you, have not yet tried. The choice of discs v drums is a personal decision people will take based either on their own experiences or through guidance from those in the know. It gets a bit tedious to have this confrontational attitude, everytime this subject is discussed.I will agree to disagree with your comments on the tie bars.

[Multiphonikks]

Minor tie-bar is massive compared to a Mini one. The weak link for me is the wee bolt (in shear !) that holds it all together - and the front bracket on the chassis is not that strong either. The actual tie-bar is plenty strong enough - it's in tension after all and so there are no 'bending' forces on it. Problem comes when idiots jack the car up under the tie-bar - obviously it bends then.
Gee whiz ! £800 for disc brakes - need to go for a lie down. My drums cost a tiny fraction of that (with spare new linings too ) and took a couple of hours to fit. Bingo - superb brakes - and the pedal is not heavy either.

So how many of these have you seen sheer?

[57traveller]

Probably none. But a bolt is stronger in tension and this particular bolt has shearing forces acting upon it so could be vulnerable because of that. Hopefully that's what bmc was trying to say?

[bmcecosse]

Indeed - if anything is going to go - it's that wee bolt ! Not the tiebar itself. But in fact - if used on very rough road (ie special stage ) conditions, it's the front bracket that tears away from the chassis. I had this start to happen on my rally Minor - caught it early enough to weld it all back up - and added some gussets for extra security.

[bmcecosse]

Jonathan - I will gladly fit disc brakes if I can get them for £50, and I will happily fit them myself ! Unfortunately my Minor motoring has to be on a strict budget basis ( I have 4 other cars to keep going too ) and so I have to look for very best value for money at all times. I suspect many others on here are similarly placed. The prospect of spending £800 on anything Minor related is just terrifying - for me, anyway.
As to the tie-bars - have you ever seen a snapped Minor tie-bar ? I have seen the little bracket (that fixes the tie-bar to the lower arms) break on one leg - and I did wonder about the smartness of that design - but a tie-bar breaking (in use on the car) is just unimaginable (is that a word ??) !!

[jonathon]

BM- I quite agree that many minor owners are on a limited budget, and spending £800 on a disc kit would for most be out of reach. However I and many other Minor specialists endevour to supply those who do have a reasonable disposable income to rebuild or modify their cars. I do not discourage DIY so long as people are aware that there are minimum standards that they should be able to reach, especially in the realms of welding and modifications.I have seen way too many dangerous cars where the DIY'r has decided that their job has been performed well enough. On the other hand I have also seen and admired several self build cars where the quality of work is excellent.
Returning to the tie-bars, if you are assuming that the bolt is subject to sheer forces then surely you must accept that these forces are also transmitted to the tie bar itself, indeed you have stated thet the chassis bracket on your own car has torn away from the leg, this must have been as a result of the forces transmitted through the tie-bar from the actions of the bottom suspension arms. In our experience we have never seen a broken tie-bar but have seen many bent ones. The purpose of our uprated tie-bars is two fold. Firstly they provide a stronger triangulation of the lower suspension components, and an arm which is less likely to be stressed through the fitting of better braking systems. The second benefit is their adjustability, the poly bushes we use are spaced on a none crushable boss, the slack is taken up with the end nut but this is only permitted enough travel to nip up the bushes, further tightening and crushing of the bushes is totally restricted . The tie-bar is easily adjustable for length, if the owner is looking for easy set up of the front end geometry.
It is our philosophy that if we are to upgrade any component of the cars running gear, then the areas to which these attatch, should be suitably reinforced to sustain the additional stresses and loadings. Sadly there are modifications in this market that pay scant regard for this aspect, hence the tales of woe in this forum.

[bmcecosse]

Ahhh - now ADJUSTABLE tie bars will be well worth having ! I have done this in the past with thicker/thinner rubbers and/or washers - the negative camber plates push the lower arms out that wee bit anyway.
In my experience with Minors and Minis - tie bars only get bent when fools jack the car up under the tie-bar - OR when covering VERY rough ground in a stage - and the tie-bar lands on a rock/tree stump!