Front Suspension Geometry, camber and caster

[culp]

Hello, Can someone point me in the right direction on how to get the front suspension geometry right on my 1970 Traveller. I'm getting some bump steer.

The toe-in is as right as I can get it without professional equipment, I used the string and axle stands technique..

The workshop manual covers how to adjust the ride height at the moment the LHS is a bit high.

The front tie bars are very, very tight I had to sand down the bushes just to get them in, is this going to upset things? How do I adjust them?

I treated myself to a camber gauge and I have found that I have 0 degrees on the left and 4 1/2 degrees of positive camber on the right. I had to replace the chassis leg when I restored the car and I guess I didn't weld the new one in exactly the right place. I did measure it and repeated the dimensions from the car pre- restoration. Do I shim it, and if so, what with? ESM (my favourite parts suppler) dont seem to have anything.

Do I need to check the caster angle too? I can do that, but if its not right, how do I adjust it?

Any advice or pointers to helpful web articles, gratefully received.

[philthehill]

In my experience the camber is never the same on both sides even when new.
My own minor when measured way back about 45 years ago with original chassis legs (still original legs) was not the same either side.
I had to pack out the N/S eye bolt with 3/16" flat plate drilled to accept the eye bolt.
The camber back then was measured with a Dunlop camber gauge. I still have a Dunlop camber gauge which is a most useful tool.
There is not much you can do about the caster with standard tie bars. I have adapted a pair of classic Mini adjustable tie bars to get the right caster but you are limited by the inflexibility of the Minor front suspension mount points.
Below is a photo of the front mount of the adjustable tie bar. The blue bar is the Minor 1/2" tie bar and the rose joint mount and fittings are part of the classic mini adjustable tie rod kit. I did have to make two spacers to suit the chassis bracket.

Tie bar front mount.jpg (34.15 KiB) Viewed 796 times

You could use the original Minor tie rod, cut it and fit a internal threaded sleeve to join the two parts. That will give you a form of adjustment so as to get the caster correct and around £7 for the tie bar sleeve plus the cost of right hand and left hand dies to cut the treads on the Minor tie bar.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/182293721773 ... %3A2047675
Or utilise parts from the adjustable tie bar in the link below
https://www.minisport.com/mslms0512-min ... -pair.html

[kevin s]

If you have access to a lathe you could turn the abutment on the threaded end back and cut the thread a bit further to increase castor.

[philthehill]

Kevin - that is a good suggestion - but it is a go / no go solution with no means of accurate adjustment without stripping out the tie bar again and again until it is right.
A readily adjustable tie bar is the way to go.

[kevin s]

You can go a bit further than you think you will need on the lathe then use washers to space it back, still need to keep taking it appart though. We used to do something similar on escorts.

If adjustable ones were available off the shelf like mini ones it would be a no brainer, not so easy if you don't have the facilities to make something.

[culp]

I spent Sunday on the car. I had it completely wrong! I checked the ride height and the side I thought was too high, is fine and the side I thought was fine was too low. I readjusted the height and now they are both the same and about 1/4" too high.

Is that good enough?

The adjusted the camber angles on both sides I now have -1 degree on one side and +2 1/2 degrees on the other.

I guess I still need to adjust that?

The tie bars are almost inpossible to get in. I have new poly bushes and they're just too hard to compress Ive cut down one of the buffers the rear one i.e. the closest to the suspension arm and can...just... get them, in then. I've noticed it creaks a bit. But the rear buffer presumably comes into use if you hit a bump whilst reversing, which isnt very often compared to going forwards.

Workable compromise?

Will that upset the suspension geometry?

[philthehill]

The workable solution for tie bar rubbers/poly is to fit a poly bush to the front of the bracket for braking and a rubber bush behind the bracket for articulation. Having the two types of bush will not upset the steering geometry. This is a well used solution. Having poly bushes only results in the articulation being compromised.
Use red rubber grease on both rubber and poly bushes to get rid of any creaking.

[culp]

The workable solution for tie bar rubbers/poly is to fit a poly bush to the front of the bracket for braking and a rubber bush behind the bracket for articulation. Having the two types of bush will not upset the steering geometry. This is a well used solution. Having poly bushes only results in the articulation being compromised.
Use red rubber grease on both rubber and poly bushes to get rid of any creaking.

Oh! I gettit. Thanks Phil

[philthehill]

Below - Adjustable Morris Minor 1000 tie bar with right and left hand threaded sleeve and rose joint front mount instead of the usual rubber bushes..
Having the right and left hand threaded sleeve allows the caster to be adjusted without having to dismantle anything.
It only requires the two locknuts to be slackened to allow adjustment.

adjustable tie rod.jpg (566.77 KiB) Viewed 572 times

[culp]

Nice! Where do you come by these?

[philthehill]

Culp
The above is just one of the many modifications I have carried to my sprint and hill climb Minor over the last 50 years of ownership.
Phil