brakes

[elizabeth]

Hi
I would like to uprate the brakes on my 1968 minor saloon from drums to calipers. Can anybody tell me what is available and how difficult a task it is to complete in a drive way with the limitations of a home tool kit?

[bigginger]

Sorry be dumb, but do you mean disc brakes? It's easy enough to do in the driveway with a few tools, but don't unless your entirely happy with your abilities to do it safely, or know/are someone who can check it all very thoroughly. The two kits of which I've had experience are the Marina kit from Charles Ware's, which is a perfectly competent thing and works fine, and the Ford based kit from JLH, which in terms of the quality of parts and engineering is light years ahead, but a bit more cash.

[Kevin]

Hi Elizabeth as Andrew has said the better kit on the market at the moment is from JLH and he is very helpful, if you are unsure give him a call, also remember you will also have to do a small mod to the master cylinder and fit an extra master cylinder reservoir.
http://www.jlhmorrisminors.co.uk/

[rayofleamington]

it can all be done with a home tool kit, but it really depends on who is using it. If it's someone who's had plenty of experience then it is all do-able.
If it is someone who is a novice, then removal, stripping , rebuilding and refitting of the master cylinder is not a job I would reccommend!

[elizabeth]

Thanks for the responses.
I've looked at the jlh site and was a bit suprised by the prices
Are any second hand kits ever available?

[bmcecosse]

Why do you want to do this ? The standard 1098 brakes in good condition are well able to stop the car. Sure - coming down Alpine passes they will fade a bit (!) - but is that how you drive the car ? Far easier conversion is to get a set of 9" drums from the front of a Wolseley 1500 - they fit straight on - excellent !!

[Multiphonikks]

BMC,

While the brakes are fine in standard configuration they're not great for modern driving.

I do 35-40 miles a day which means my 3,000 mile service rolls around pretty quickly. Drum Brakes do require regular adjustement and can be a righ pain in the bumb as they loose their sharpness quite quickly.

The main problem however, is other drivers. I try (and I'm lucky because my drive to work is over the small roads between Britol and Bath) to keep a large distance between the car in front and Hebe so that if I need to stop in a hurry I can!

But the problem is that not everyone else on the road realises a minor takes a while to stop! If someone gets in your braking space it's both scary and dangerous. Disc brakes are the sensible route if you want to use your car daily in modern traffic (especially on the Motorway)

Besides, how many Woolie 1500s are there these days???

Elizabeth - your car will be fine with standard brakes (I do still drive with Drums but it can sometimes be a bit of a shock coming to a halt in a hurry)

My own personal advice would be to save up for a good kit if you're sure you want discs ( I certainly do!)
Alternatively you can actually fit a servo to your standard brakes (that'll make you stop a bit quicker as it'll make it easier to push the pedal down. Discs with servos are considered to sometimes be too much for a minor, but I like them

In the meantime, try pumping the brakes when you need to stop (rally style). It certainly means I can stop in a hurry in Hebe, makes sure the brakes don't overheat and enables you to use the whole weight of the car to stop (cadence breaking lets you use the weight of the car's engine to stop the car)

Good luck!

Nikki

[TerryG]

To save a bit on brake fade rather than useing the brakes to slow down gently just drop a cog and lift off (Unless you are doing 70 obviously ) It is easy to upgrade a mog to have modern braking but i would NEVER even think about fitting 2nd hand brakes to mine. I like to know the full history of any mod i make that could endanger me and other people. After buying a 2nd hand kit you should expect to spend £100 - £150 having the calipers re-conditioned and new discs anyway so that brings the cost up to around the same as a new kit (depending on the cost of the 2nd hand one).

[Multiphonikks]

Good Point, Terry.

Engine Braking can help a great deal in slowing your mog down, but make sure your 'box is okay. Some minors have a nasty habit of dropping out of second when you change down for a corner!

[chickenjohn]

I agree that for a standard car, standard brakes, in good condition, are fine.

perhaps they need adjusting or new shoes, or as on the higher milage of my two cars, the drums were worn. New drums and the car stops a LOT better! Or a fluid change, and general overhaul can make a big difference!

If you get the standard brakes working well you may find you don't need to go to the trouble and expense of modifying! (although for mod fans- I have nothing against modifying in principle, its just that it makes sense to see if a well sorted standard car does the job first!)

oh, and just keep a longer stopping distance between you and the car in front!!

[Multiphonikks]

Hi John,

It does rather depend on what part of the country you live in.

Drum Brakes on the A46 into Bath is enough to scare anyone with a drum brake minor!

[chickenjohn]

Drum brakes are fine in East Kent! Hill, whats a hill?? ;)

[bmcecosse]

The Minor does NOT take a long time/distance to stop - if your brakes are working as they should they will be able to lock the front wheels. If they don't - get them fixed. In any case - drive sensibly/economically - look well ahead and keep braking to a minimum. Cheap linings made from 'camel dung' are the problem - pay a bit more for good ones. How old is this Minor anyway - the older 803/948 cars only had 7" drums at the front - now they are a bit scary. Upgrade to 8" drums from a later 1098 Minor. Wolseley 1500s can be found - but not that plentiful ! A servo does NOT make the brakes 'better' - it only reduces the pedal load - waste of time in my opinion. My Traveller just got a new MOT with the Wolseley brakes - scored 200 both sides - the maximum - wheels locked. I also used these ( a different set !) 40 years ago on my rally Minor - what a difference !!

[bigginger]

I've only ever had two brake failures in a car (one in a Bedford van doesn't count, and it was a rear drum anyway. ) Both of them were on drum braked Minors (both were new to me, thus not maintained by me). To save repetition, can you just take it as read that whenever you read the above, I've answered "Yes, the brakes on a Minor are and were perfectly sufficient for the conditions for which they were designed. As those conditions changed, the best minds in the business set about devising a better system and came up with disc brakes, which became, and have for many years been standard for front wheel braking in a car."? Thank you - and yes, I am biased, I loathe drum brakes. Oh, and the two sets of Wolsey 1500 brakes I saw over the weekend (very second hand) were for sale at a healthy proportion of the price of a disc kit.

[Pyoor_Kate]

I have driven both drum and disk braked minors; and I'm fully aware that drum brakes can 'adequately' stop the car. Just I'm not a big fan of adequate brakes.

There have been various incidents in my life where people have pulled out without warning, where they've dived into my braking gap on the motorway then slammed on their brakes for no readily apparent reason (perhaps a fly was in danger of being hit, or they suddenly remembered they left the gas on, I'm unsure) - on which occasions the more-than-adequate disk brakes were a very nice thing to have.

It is quite possible that the drum brakes might have achieved the same conclusion (i.e. me being stopped without being embedded in the car in front) - but it's also possible that their 'adequate' nature competing against the much-more-than-adequate nature of the car in front may have resulted in a collision.

That and I live in a hilly bit of the country. Yes, I do drop down a gear and whine my way down the steeper hills, despite my disk braked car, but that's mostly force of habit, I don't need to, and I'm much happier in my knowledge that when I get to the bottom of the A46 I can stop. Quickly if need be. When I come down St. Michaels Hill and some small child decides to run across in front of me, my brakes stop me without me worrying about them having faded to ineffectiveness... and when I head to the lakes on holiday I can roam over the passes wihtout fearing that I'll be following my fathers rather rapid descent down it in an A40 with overheated brakes and a very scared family inside....

[Multiphonikks]

There you go - it appears the Bristol lot are fans of Discs ... `;)

[Kevin]

Wolseley 1500s can be found - but not that plentiful !

Thats an understatement as Ray tried to find a complete set for over six months and the only ones i think that came up had chips missing from the drums ! so I would not call them a easily available alternative and i also believe that something has to be altered with the brake cylinders, so its not going to be an easy thing for a mechanical novice.

[bmcecosse]

Mine were a great buy on this website just a few weeks ago - many thanks Ian !! Bolt straight on - nothing to be modified. Passed MOT today with flying colours. Mind you - that was just fronts (which is where it matters most) - I am still looking for rears !

[Multiphonikks]

BMC,

Servos do help - they assist the braking - you can stop with a lot less effort from the driver - not nessesarily quicker

How do you get on with the constant brake adjusting? Wouldn't you rather have a nice simple set of discs????

[Kevin]

Wouldn't you rather have a nice simple set of discs????

Which sort do you prefer Nikki, 45`s or 33`s as you are not old enough for 78`s ( sorry thats dreadful )