2 door VAE 306H
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- Minor Legend
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Re: 2 door VAE 306H
Went for a first test drive today, I drove about 3 miles, it pulls better and drove really well.
Then Andrew had a drive, after about 500 yds he was coasting down a steep hill and there was a horrible sound like the crashing of gears and tbe engine stopped. We pulled over to find the distributor hanging out and the drive gear having dissapeared! Went to get the Range rover and dragged it home.
On close inspection with and endascope it appears the cam looks fine but the hole the drive gear sits in at the bottom looks badly hammered, there is a chink missing out of the bottom of the distributor hole in the block and there feel like small scratches on the crank balance weights. It still turns over fine and has a good compresssion though. Tomorrow I will drop the sump and see what is in there, if everything else seems OK and its just the dizzy parts damaged the best option may be to go fully mapped crank triggered ignition and junk the dizzy and it's drive altogether with something like megajolt.
Then Andrew had a drive, after about 500 yds he was coasting down a steep hill and there was a horrible sound like the crashing of gears and tbe engine stopped. We pulled over to find the distributor hanging out and the drive gear having dissapeared! Went to get the Range rover and dragged it home.
On close inspection with and endascope it appears the cam looks fine but the hole the drive gear sits in at the bottom looks badly hammered, there is a chink missing out of the bottom of the distributor hole in the block and there feel like small scratches on the crank balance weights. It still turns over fine and has a good compresssion though. Tomorrow I will drop the sump and see what is in there, if everything else seems OK and its just the dizzy parts damaged the best option may be to go fully mapped crank triggered ignition and junk the dizzy and it's drive altogether with something like megajolt.
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- Minor Legend
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Re: 2 door VAE 306H
Haven't got the sump off yet but from a closer inspection it's a somewhat mixed bag. The major issue is a small hole in the block just above the sump flange on the exhaust side of about 1/2" diameter where it looks like a fragment of something has got between the no4 con rod and the block, the con rod has a few marks but doesn't look significantly damaged, it still makes oil pressure and oil and coolant have not mixed, the damage to the distributor bore is little more than a few chips off the bottom edge and the bore for the pilot bearing on the base of the distributor drive doesn't look badly damaged. the cam looks fine. Whatever we have decided to go for a megajolt system so none of the distributor stuff will be needed, when the sumps off we will take a closer look at the conrod, and big end bearing, if it all looks OK (or repairable even if it means lifting the head and fitting a new rod) then I will make a plug to fill the hole.
After all the work I am more than a little fed up!!
After all the work I am more than a little fed up!!
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- Minor Legend
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Re: 2 door VAE 306H
Summary is we need a new bottom end, the bottom of 2 bores and pistons are also damaged. (there is also a massive dent in the sump.
Good news is the damage is well away from the cam which looks perfect.
So the plan is to get a new short engine from ESM, we have a std bore spare engine we can give in exchange, then swap all the other new parts (Cam, oil pump, duplex chain and unleaded head spin on filter etc) over onto it obviously the pump will be thoroughly inspected and cleaned first. they seem to have a n engine in stock, if so Andrew will go and collect it on Thursday in my company car.
It will then get the distributor less megajolt ignition we have already bough so I won't even need a new distributor and drive.
The root cause seems to be the distributor as we descended a steep hill I suspect the engine developed more vacuum than it ever had before that seems to have caused something to jam in the distributor as it vac advanced which then ejected it's self starting the chain reaction. (the vac module is hanging out of the side of the dizzy and the drive key is damaged)
Conclusion, in total we are a grand down but we'll get there in a couple of weeks, its only money we would have spent on a holiday we can't have anyway!
Once this is done the gearbox will probably explode!
Good news is the damage is well away from the cam which looks perfect.
So the plan is to get a new short engine from ESM, we have a std bore spare engine we can give in exchange, then swap all the other new parts (Cam, oil pump, duplex chain and unleaded head spin on filter etc) over onto it obviously the pump will be thoroughly inspected and cleaned first. they seem to have a n engine in stock, if so Andrew will go and collect it on Thursday in my company car.
It will then get the distributor less megajolt ignition we have already bough so I won't even need a new distributor and drive.
The root cause seems to be the distributor as we descended a steep hill I suspect the engine developed more vacuum than it ever had before that seems to have caused something to jam in the distributor as it vac advanced which then ejected it's self starting the chain reaction. (the vac module is hanging out of the side of the dizzy and the drive key is damaged)
Conclusion, in total we are a grand down but we'll get there in a couple of weeks, its only money we would have spent on a holiday we can't have anyway!
Once this is done the gearbox will probably explode!
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- Minor Friendly
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Re: 2 door VAE 306H
I was actually expecting a photo on the recent update. It seems like this restoration project is going well despite the issues that you encounter from time to time.
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- Minor Legend
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Re: 2 door VAE 306H
I'll try and take some later, and then some better ones once it's all in pieces.
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- Minor Legend
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Re: 2 door VAE 306H
Some pictures.
Sump a bit dented
Hole in block
Not very good picture of the piston & bore damage.
Bits from spare engine about to go to esm for exchange.
Bits from spare engine to be re-used.
Sump a bit dented
Hole in block
Not very good picture of the piston & bore damage.
Bits from spare engine about to go to esm for exchange.
Bits from spare engine to be re-used.
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- Minor Maniac
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Re: 2 door VAE 306H
There does not appear to be any locking tabs on the big end bolts - see picture of piston and bore damage. If there were no locking tabs this is the second case in as many weeks.
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- Minor Legend
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Re: 2 door VAE 306H
The big end bolts were all fitted with loctite and are still tight even after knocking lumps of distributor drive through the block on the other side!
perhaps I should have bearing locked the distributor in!
Phil,
do you know if 948 big end bolts are the same as 1098? I'd rather not use these ones again after this and I have a spare 948 engine I can rob them from, several of the spare 1098 ones I have have rounded heads.
perhaps I should have bearing locked the distributor in!
Phil,
do you know if 948 big end bolts are the same as 1098? I'd rather not use these ones again after this and I have a spare 948 engine I can rob them from, several of the spare 1098 ones I have have rounded heads.
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- Minor Maniac
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Re: 2 door VAE 306H
The big end bolts for the 948cc and 1098cc engines are the same Pt No: 2A659. So to answer your question you can use the big end bolts from the 948cc engine.
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- Minor Legend
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Re: 2 door VAE 306H
great thanks, another engine to take apart, it's looking like an A series grave yard around here at the moment!
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- Minor Legend
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Re: 2 door VAE 306H
Andrew went to sussex today and came back with this lot.
and this lot also arrived -
This is the megajolt mappable ignition kit.
so here we go again! should be quicker this time though as I have a vague idea what I am doing!
and this lot also arrived -
This is the megajolt mappable ignition kit.
so here we go again! should be quicker this time though as I have a vague idea what I am doing!
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- Minor Legend
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Re: 2 door VAE 306H
... I'd send that cog back if I was you, it looks like it has a tooth missing....
John
John
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- Minor Legend
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Re: 2 door VAE 306H
Some progress today
.
Con rods cleaned and balanced (some were 6g heavier than others). As on the last set the little ends were all pretty much the same so the weight came off the big end and caps mostly around the joint where there were bits sticking out doing nothing. Then cleaned them again, blew out the piston squirt holes and washed the big end threads with celly thinner so the loctite works. To be sure they were OK I test fitted each one to the crank, all were free running with no play.
Then fitted the rings (pistons were all within 1g of each other) and fitted them to the rods.
Also cleaned up the sump and knocked some dents out of the bottom.
Pretty much ready to build the bottom end up now just need to strip the bottom of another 948 engine around the lock up to get a decent set of big end bolts.
.
Con rods cleaned and balanced (some were 6g heavier than others). As on the last set the little ends were all pretty much the same so the weight came off the big end and caps mostly around the joint where there were bits sticking out doing nothing. Then cleaned them again, blew out the piston squirt holes and washed the big end threads with celly thinner so the loctite works. To be sure they were OK I test fitted each one to the crank, all were free running with no play.
Then fitted the rings (pistons were all within 1g of each other) and fitted them to the rods.
Also cleaned up the sump and knocked some dents out of the bottom.
Pretty much ready to build the bottom end up now just need to strip the bottom of another 948 engine around the lock up to get a decent set of big end bolts.
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- Minor Legend
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Re: 2 door VAE 306H
Went and dug out the 948 engine, lifted onto some bricks to drain the oil the layed it on it's side and pulled the sump off.
It is the one which was in the car when we bought it appart from a valve rusted in the guide it actually looks a pretty good engine which clearly has had some work at some point.
Took the bolts off and also grabbed the filthy but functional brass coolant drain tap.
i
Put the sump back on and shoved it back in the corner.
Bolts were washed in thinners as were the crank and block oil galleries which allowed me to fit the crank and pistons, it all turns freely so just need to loctite and torque the bolts tomorrow.
Also washed the collection of sump bolts.
I find the star washer under each one strange, any idea what this is supposed to achieve?
Also I assume each bolt should have one of these oval washers and it should be flat?
Need to get the other engine out of the car before I do much else, might try taking it out the top this time. Before I do this I will sort out where to mount all the ignition components though.
It is the one which was in the car when we bought it appart from a valve rusted in the guide it actually looks a pretty good engine which clearly has had some work at some point.
Took the bolts off and also grabbed the filthy but functional brass coolant drain tap.
i
Put the sump back on and shoved it back in the corner.
Bolts were washed in thinners as were the crank and block oil galleries which allowed me to fit the crank and pistons, it all turns freely so just need to loctite and torque the bolts tomorrow.
Also washed the collection of sump bolts.
I find the star washer under each one strange, any idea what this is supposed to achieve?
Also I assume each bolt should have one of these oval washers and it should be flat?
Need to get the other engine out of the car before I do much else, might try taking it out the top this time. Before I do this I will sort out where to mount all the ignition components though.
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- Minor Maniac
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Re: 2 door VAE 306H
The star washers are shake proof washers.
The oval washers should be flat. If they are not flat the sump bolts have been over tightened.
The sump bolts should be set to only 6lbf ft torque.
The oval washers should be flat. If they are not flat the sump bolts have been over tightened.
The sump bolts should be set to only 6lbf ft torque.
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- Minor Legend
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Re: 2 door VAE 306H
Thanks they were off the 950, it also had vast glob of sicone sealer round the sump, I'm guessing someone had problems with leaks.
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- Minor Maniac
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Re: 2 door VAE 306H
Grease the sump gaskets and end corks plus fit a set of flat & shake proof washers and you should have nil leaks.
Do not over torque the sump bolts.
Do not over torque the sump bolts.
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- Minor Legend
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Re: 2 door VAE 306H
Yes that's what I did in the engine that lasted 3 miles! Sump didn't leak but front cover was already leaking at the bottom I think this a common issue and some people fit a plate to reinforce it?
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- Minor Maniac
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Re: 2 door VAE 306H
The bottom of the timing chain cover is prone to leakage due to distortion of the flange.
BMC did latterly install a curved plate to try and stop the leakage - similar to this -
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/124759869625 ... SwUIletp6I
Fitting the latest BL rubberised timing chain cover gasket helps considerably.
Again grease the gasket before assembly.
Careful assembly reduces the possibility of oil seepage and/or leakage.
For pre 'A' Plus engines - http://www.minispares.com/product/Class ... o%20search
For 'A' Plus engines - http://www.minispares.com/product/Class ... o%20search
BMC did latterly install a curved plate to try and stop the leakage - similar to this -
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/124759869625 ... SwUIletp6I
Fitting the latest BL rubberised timing chain cover gasket helps considerably.
Again grease the gasket before assembly.
Careful assembly reduces the possibility of oil seepage and/or leakage.
For pre 'A' Plus engines - http://www.minispares.com/product/Class ... o%20search
For 'A' Plus engines - http://www.minispares.com/product/Class ... o%20search
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- Minor Legend
- Posts: 1382
- Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:20 pm
- Location: Chelmsford, essex
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Re: 2 door VAE 306H
Pulled the failed engine out today.
Came appart easily enough, this what was in the sump.
Cam had some damage to the distributor drive and an adjacent lobe but luckily to the edges and away from the lobe itself so we can usè this again. (we won't be fitting a distributor)
6 One follower was also chipped.
The biggest sign of the loads on the cam when the distributor seized is the fact that it has domed the thrust plate.
Off to order new followers and thrust plate.
Came appart easily enough, this what was in the sump.
Cam had some damage to the distributor drive and an adjacent lobe but luckily to the edges and away from the lobe itself so we can usè this again. (we won't be fitting a distributor)
6 One follower was also chipped.
The biggest sign of the loads on the cam when the distributor seized is the fact that it has domed the thrust plate.
Off to order new followers and thrust plate.
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