Gov now announce the banning of all new petrol and diesel cars by 2030, yes, 10 years time! Following this, it is likely that they will then eventually want to phase out petrol/diesel itself so will be impossible to drive the older vehicles. Of course, an electric Minor has already been produced but won't have the same character (e.g. the exhaust sound - I suppose you could fit an audio chip or something to reproduce that, but still not the same. And electric vehicles not so friendly for home-mechanics either?).
Anyway, my main point is that I read on the BBC website a post from someone saying: "The issue will be getting the petrol as I am sure they will ban that, my Moggy Minor will run on parafin or methalated spirit, probably also vodka, basically almost anything that burns."
My question - how easy would that be and what modifications would be needed (and imagine how expensive it would be to run yor car on vodka! )
It's only banning the sale of new cars, so the fuel will be around for many years after, especially as they are not banning hybrids.
Also it's cars/vans, not trucks, tractors or all the other internal combustion vehicles.
Would it not be an idea for classic car clubs to band together and buy some petrol stations across the UK as they become available? Surely they will end up being sold off cheaply as demand drops. They could be run not-for-profit.
Okay, it might be 20-30 years down the line before things start becoming difficult but we should be planning now for long-term access for historic vehicles.
They could be combined with cafes open to everyone, and/or shops, and to host classic car club meetings and as order/collection points for classic car spare parts.
When the demand inevitably drops and the profits disappear many forecourts across the country will close.
A bad day with my Volksie still beats a good day at work!
I fear it wont be just forecourts that disappear, it will be the whole infrastructure including the refineries and transport network etc.
It will be the fuel itself that vanishes, not the places where you buy it.
The same thing is happening in the steam preservation world with coal supplies.
Would anyone really want to drive a car in 2030, electric or not. The roads are full up now ! Motorcycles are the answer but the government seem anti bike for some reason.
les wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 12:23 pm
Would anyone really want to drive a car in 2030, electric or not. The roads are full up now ! Motorcycles are the answer but the government seem anti bike for some reason.
With the roads being full up would anyone fancy riding a motorcycle. I wouldn't
we can only hope it’s not in our lifetimes. Perhaps in the long term they can be run on an alternative liquid fuel so you at least still get the same noise.
pgp001 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 11:10 am
I fear it wont be just forecourts that disappear, it will be the whole infrastructure including the refineries and transport network etc.
It will be the fuel itself that vanishes, not the places where you buy it.
The same thing is happening in the steam preservation world with coal supplies.
Phil
As for the motorcycles point. I rode one as a daily commute machine for six years until 2012. I was lucky enough never to be knocked off it, but judging by how many people these days can’t see my Volvo with its headlights on (or who do see it but don’t care about you because every vehicle is seen as an obstacle to “beat” by the idiot driver) there’s no way I’d go back to two wheels in the UK. Maybe on the continent.
A bad day with my Volksie still beats a good day at work!
MorrisJohn wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:40 am
When the demand inevitably drops and the profits disappear many forecourts across the country will close.
I think that started happening at least 30 years ago didn't it? The nearest town to us had 6 garages selling petrol when I first had a car. Now there are NONE!
You’re right. That’s probably partly something to do with the rise in supermarkets selling fuel though. Perhaps “many more forecourts will close” would be more accurate.
MorrisJohn wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:40 am
When the demand inevitably drops and the profits disappear many forecourts across the country will close.
I think that started happening at least 30 years ago didn't it? The nearest town to us had 6 garages selling petrol when I first had a car. Now there are NONE!
A bad day with my Volksie still beats a good day at work!
With the roads being full up would anyone fancy riding a motorcycle. I wouldn't
[/quote]
The point being, they wouldn’t be as full ! Bikes are smaller than 4x4s.
I’ll keep my bike; I don’t like queuing for the shops, let alone on the roads.
There’s a lot of anti bike feeling.
MorrisJohn wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:40 am
When the demand inevitably drops and the profits disappear many forecourts across the country will close.
I think that started happening at least 30 years ago didn't it? The nearest town to us had 6 garages selling petrol when I first had a car. Now there are NONE!
I think like many, you are forgetting the relative range of vehicles between fill-ups.
Compare the range of your Minor to a modern vehicle; 250 miles at best probably.
Whereas a modern car does at least twice that, with a far more efficient fuel consumption and a larger tank.
While EV sales have taken off this year, in relative terms, they are still a single digit percentages of the total and we're a year or two from price-parity (not accounting for vastly lower maintenance costs of EVs).
I don't think we have much to worry about for the next decade other than taking precautions against ethanol.
Not that I've ever bought a new car, or even one less than a decade old...
Parafin would require a compression ratio half of that in the Minor engine and would probably require a pre-heater, so terribly inefficient and impractical all round. I think some petrol-kerosene mixes were used in four stroke engines in the past though.
Ethanol much easier. Perhaps in 15 years we'll all be driving E85 converted Minors.
myoldjalopy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:58 am
Gov now announce the banning of all new petrol and diesel cars by 2030, yes, 10 years time! Following this, it is likely that they will then eventually want to phase out petrol/diesel itself so will be impossible to drive the older vehicles. Of course, an electric Minor has already been produced but won't have the same character (e.g. the exhaust sound - I suppose you could fit an audio chip or something to reproduce that, but still not the same. And electric vehicles not so friendly for home-mechanics either?).
Anyway, my main point is that I read on the BBC website a post from someone saying: "The issue will be getting the petrol as I am sure they will ban that, my Moggy Minor will run on parafin or methalated spirit, probably also vodka, basically almost anything that burns."
My question - how easy would that be and what modifications would be needed (and imagine how expensive it would be to run yor car on vodka! )
it will be interesting to see if they ever install enough charging points by then,or increase the power output for the demand,There is one solution,fit an old direct injection diesel and run it on veg oil I ran my old transit on veg oil for a number of years,neat in the summer and with a drop of petrol in it, in the winter.Untill the supermarkets craftilly put the price up when it was realised that they were selling large quantities of 5 litre bottles . Any one travelling behind me thought I was a mobile fish and chips van
Remember also that Bosch, Volkswagen/Porsche, Mazda etc. are all working on their own biofuel replacements to petrol that are meant to work as a direct replacement so there is hope. Mercedes on the other hand have said their future is electric only.
Mazda recently started reproduction of parts for the original MX-5/Eunos/Miata so I reckon/speculate they're going to try and keep the old cars running if they can.
les wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 12:23 pm
Would anyone really want to drive a car in 2030, electric or not. The roads are full up now !
Ah, but by 2030 all the modern cars will be flying 12 feet above the ground so we'll have the roads to ourselves
kennatt wrote: ↑Thu Nov 19, 2020 8:34 am
I ran my old transit on veg oil for a number of years,
I read recently when looking into whether the campervan could run off veg oil that they've now decided veg oil also gives off fairly harmful fumes, just different ones to diesel - can't win, can you?
There was also a proposal to develop a hydrogen infrastructure, runnng a IC engine on hydrogen reduces the power by about 50% supercharging can get most of this back.
Hydrogen does work well in a gas turbine though.......
)
we can only hope it’s not in our lifetimes. Perhaps in the long term they can be run on an alternative liquid fuel so you at least still get the same noise.
