Crankshaft pulley removal

[DRMM]

I'm trying to sort a slight oil leak - not sure if it's from the timing cover seal, the gasket, or the sump gasket - first I'm trying to replace the timing cover seal and gasket...
I can't see how to release the pulley from the end of the crankshaft. I thought I would be able to simply pull it off by hand (I've removed the starter dog nut of course).
It won't budge. I even tried tapping the end of the crankshaft whilst trying to pull/lever off the pulley.
Any suggestions?

BTW the leak: some drips, after a run, from under the timing cover and also at the rear end of the sump and gearbox flange/bellhousing.

[Nickol]

If it wont move then you may have to revert to a three-way Extractor - they are cheap enough.

Be sure though that it really is the oil seal in the Timing chain cover that is leaking. From Memory, the soft alu front which the lower bolts are screwed into are difficult to seal perfectly and the resultant Drops of oil get smeared right back towards the gearbox by the slipstream, making you think that even the gearbox is leaking !

But most probably the proper experts on the Forum will be along soon to advise definitevely

[philthehill]

Soak the joint between the pulley and crankshaft with genuine penetrating oil and leave overnight and try again in the morning.
The pulley can either come off nice and easy or can be a bug--r to get off.
If you have a multipiece crankshaft pulley which has the mild steel pressed 'V' belt flanges using a three or two legged pulley can distort the pulley which may end up as scrap as a pulley but can be used as a crankshaft seal centralised when the 'V' belt flanges are removed.

All I can suggest is that you put a pair of wide flat tyre levers between the pulley and timing chain cove and press hard whilst your third hand taps the end of the crankshaft which may nudge the pulley off the crankshaft nose.

If that does not work then use a two or three legged puller but do not be surprised if the pulley gets damaged.

When using a puller use a piece of wood or crankshaft nose piece between the puller screwed shaft and the crankshaft nose so as not to damage the crankshaft

If the two suggestions do not work come back on here for further advice.

Whilst you have the pulley off I would change it for a solid or damper type crankshaft pulley.

[DRMM]

Thanks guys, for the support...

Well, I spent most of the day trying to release that pulley but no joy. I did spray the joint with WD40 (is that what you meant by "genuine penetrating oil" Phil?) and I left it overnight but I suspect it doesn't easily penetrate just from what can be sprayed in situ?
I didn't have the wide flat tyre levers, but improvised with some similar sized ring spanners - pushing and pulling whilst a friend tapped a suitably sized socket held against the crankshaft nose.

I decided to give up in the end and put it back together... try changing the sump gasket first. It seems like I'll probably have to have another pulley in hand before going again on the timing cover seal anyway. (btw the current one is the std pressed steel multi piece one, and it already has a bit of a wobble to it but it did before attempting to remove it). So I'll look into those solid and damper (?) ones.

Yes, Nickol, the oil does reach back to the gearbox and yes I too have wondered if the gearbox is leaking too - I get a bead of oil hanging from the drain plug.

Well, at least I have learned how to remove the front panel. Before which I'd seen mention of "hockey sticks" and had wondered what on earth are they? So, now I know, ha ha, yes it's obvious when you have to remove them. I'd been thinking: "maybe the hockey sticks are those big protruding mounts for the front bumper... but then people have changed the nuts to 2BA which are too small for such..." Ha ha.

[mobylette]

WD40 is not a penetrating oil although a lot of people think it is. You want something like Plus Gas : http://www.plusgas.co.uk/

[DRMM]

WD40 is not a penetrating oil although a lot of people think it is. You want something like Plus Gas : http://www.plusgas.co.uk/

Ah, thanks. Now I know. Is it worth a try on this? I have to confess I don't have much confidence it will work. But then I've only ever tried WD40.

[mobylette]

Well it is always worth having some Plus Gas about, it has freed off a lot of rusted fittings for me. I don't bother with the aerosol, just the standard can. Will last you for years. WD40 is really a water dispersant hence the WD.

[philthehill]

Plus Gas in my opinion is the best.
I managed to get a empty 1954 Plus Gas can with spout at a local auto jumble which I will put to good use.

[mobylette]

Like this?

[philthehill]

Similar but the spout is longer and the cap is off sett to the left when looking at the front of the can.

[jagnut66]

I rate / use Plus Gas too, however I didn't realise the product dated back to 1954! That makes your can as old as my car!
Best wishes,
Mike.

[DRMM]

... Update ...

I managed to get the pulley off, by drilling and tapping two holes into the flange of the pulley (thru the lock tab windows) in order to utilise a puller - 2legged. And hay, so simple and easy-peasy - it just wound off with the puller operation, like a knife thru butter.
So, fitted new timing cover gasket and seal... job done for the front end leakage.

Back end leakage - I had a struggle trying to get the sump gasket to seal. My first attempt, using the cork sections failed miserably.
Second attempt I used a bit of Wellseal on the joints between cork sections and side pieces. And it seams to be okay. Not perfect but okay - a very small slow weepage at the rear whilst running. I can live with it, at least for now.

Some things I did find in the process:
The gasket sets can vary in quality: I first bought a set (by "BG Automotive") at my local motor factors and the cork sections were too thin (only 5mm thick) and not flexible enough to fit without buckling. And the side pieces were noticeably thinner than the next 2 sets I bought from ESM which had 6mm thick cork sections - fitting snugly in the half moon grooves with enough flexibility to stay in, and the side pieces noticeably thicker. One of the BG Automotive side pieces even was approx 1/4" short of the rear half moon! So didn't use them.

On fitting the new pulley I was a bit confused as to which way round the oil thrower goes. After consulting the wealth of posts on the forum I found that it should have a stamped "F" mark to show "forward". And also that the concave/dished side goes forward too (over/towards the seal). At first I couldn't find the "F" mark so was about to fit it with the dished side forward. But stopped and rubbed the metal sides and hey presto there was the "F". Unfortunately, on mine, fitting that side forward puts the dished side rearward!
Back to the forum posts I eventually found a post that revealed that the later type (like mine) goes round the other way (not towards the seal but backwards). So there you go, I fitted it with "F" forwards / dish rearwards.
Pondering this design change, I thought perhaps when the seal changed from felt to rubber, there was not anymore necessity to guard the seal so they utilised the thrower to throw oil more in the direction of the chain?

Incidentally, my visit to ESM found a lovely classic workshop run by very open mechanics and body/spray bods... I was given a tour of it, by the proprietor, and was able to ask many questions and see it all working.
I recommend a visit, good to see it all happening.

[philthehill]

Well done.
The concave of the later oil thrower plate does indeed face rearwards with the 'F' facing forward.

The timing chain is mainly lubricated by oil via the camshaft front bearing oil feed but the thrower plate does throw engine oil around the inside of the timing chain cover with some landing on the timing chain.

As regards the cork seals at each end of the sump did you soak them in engine oil overnight and did you trim the corks as per the workshop manual.

img041.jpg (1.77 MiB) Viewed 2860 times

[DRMM]

As regards the cork seals at each end of the sump did you soak them in engine oil overnight and did you trim the corks as per the workshop manual.

My first attempt I didn't oil or grease
My second attempt I greased the cork sections and tried to trim them 1/8" proud of the sump face, but I think it ended up a bit less than 1/8" and my trimming skills weren't brilliant - not square enough
I started to soak in oil the too thin cork sections, for my third attempt but didn't feel good about them tending to buckle... And as it happened my second attempt turned out ok for now (I don't want to do that job again soon ha ha).

Thanks Phil and all.

I hadn't seen that write-up in the manual. That's very useful - makes it clear.

[Declan_Burns]

Or use the rubber seals from the 1275 engine. It has been discussed dozens of times on here.
Regards
Declan

[philthehill]

Front seal:-

https://www.moss-europe.co.uk/oil-seal- ... soc=417476

Rear seal:-

https://www.moss-europe.co.uk/seal-rear ... soc=417475

The rubber seals have to be shortened to suit.

Whilst they may be better I have never felt the need to use them as I have never had any problems with the cork seals. The secret with the cork seals is to measure twice and cut once which must be square, soak in engine oil over night, and grease the gasket before fitting.
I also grease the sump to block side gaskets which helps to seal the gaskets and also allows easy removal and re-use of the gaskets if necessary.
Progressively tighten the sump bolts to pull the cork gaskets to the sump to block gasket. This will also centralise the cork gasket in the retaining channel. The ends of the cork seals should sit square against the sump to block gasket so as to give a complete seal. I have never had the need to use sealer in this application.
Taking care with these sump gaskets pays dividends.

Make sure that no part of the cork gasket seal metal lip is detached from the main body of the sump. I have a 1275cc that came with the sump gasket seal lip partially broken away from the main body of the sump. Before reuse I will braze the lip back on. If it is detached it can cause the rear seal to leak.

[DRMM]

... Yes, I had been contemplating using those 1275 rubber ones. I wasn't sure which I would need though - 2 x front seal or 2x rear seal or one of each (I assumed the 1098 was the same front and rear, but the 1275 seems to have different part numbers for front and rear. What's the difference?). Also the metal former inside needs hack-sawing apparently).

... I went for a bit of a run-around today, just to test, and there seems to be hardly any weepage at all. It's fine for now at least.
There's no weepage once the engine is cut. So I guess that means the rear scroll seal is working okay?

What brand of sump gasket set do yous use? Or from where? I ask because mine there was a bit of a gap on one end of one of the side gaskets - gap to the corner of the half moon. ie. the cork end had to fill the gap as well as bridging to the side gasket.