suspension springs corrosion

[philthehill]

Declan
Many thanks for the explanation but we are talking about the eye pin itself and the means to stop it rotating whilst the nylock nut/plain nut is being done up/or being undone.
Unless you use the special tool or know of a hybrid tool there is no means of holding the pin to stop it rotating.
The sacrificial plate of which it is should be fitted before the spring is fitted and removed after the spring has been removed.
Note: the eye bolt insert/sacrificial plate was not originally fitted but because the spring hanger wore quit rapidly the insert modification was incorporated.
I agree that the two 1/4" UNF bolts are hard to attach a spanner too especially the inner ones therefore it is always best to replace the bolts/nuts when the spring is removed.
Phil

[dudload]

As much as undoing the nut is a problem holding the pin whilst doing up the nylock nut is just as much of a problem. Maybe not so bad if a plain nut and spring washer is used.

that's my worry - i know i can resort to brute force and cutting the nut off to get the pin off, but worried that i won't be able to screw the nut on when fitting the new pin. seems very weird that this is such a proprietary fitting on an otherwise bolt and nut car

[Declan_Burns]

Phil,
I understand but the pin I got from ESM at the time was an interference fit in the locating plate and there was no need to hold it. It had to be tapped in and didn't budge.
Regards
Declan

[philthehill]

dudload
Unfortunately we are where we are.
It would be much better if the pin had a hexagon on its inner face but unless you resort to making one off items you are stuck with what is available.

Declan
I have genuine NOS BMC plates and genuine NOS BMC/BL pins and the shoulder of the pin whilst a snug fit inside the centre hole of the plate - the plate does not hold the pin and is not an interference fit and the pin can be rotated in the plate with gentle pressure.
The plate is an interference fit in the spring hanger bracket attached to the body.
Phil

[dudload]

We are indeed Phil!

I'd be interested to know if anyone has recently installed the springs without the special tool and how they tightened up the nut without it. Hopefully it is a friction fit, but worried that it's not and I end up with a car off the road...

[philthehill]

Try fitting the pin and ultimately the self locking nut by using this process - fit the pin and using a plain nut tighten the pin into the spring mounting body bracket - lower the cars weight onto the spring/pin and replace the plain nut with a self locking nut.
Putting the weight onto the spring/pin may overcome the inclination for the pin to turn when the nylock nut is fitted.
The original fitment only used a spring washer and plain nut - you could go back to the original arrangement without concerns.

[Declan_Burns]

Phil,
Here is my interpretation of the special tool based on your measurements above.
In my opinion there is really no need for such a tool. I would simply hammer two 4.8 ... 5mm short stainless steel spring roll pins from the DIY into the holes in the pin and use a 15 x 4mm (or there about), wide flat bar wedged between the pins to hold it and leave the pins inserted in case you need to remove it at a later stage.
Regards
Declan

[philthehill]

Declan
Many thanks for the drawing.
The problem of holding the pin when dismantling arises when you want to undo the nut without having to resort to using a nut splitter or other means of removing the nut which may result in damage to the pin.
The easiest solution is to always cut off the nut/end of pin and knock out the pin which is ok if the person doing the job has new pins or can readily source new pins.
As you know and for the wider audience the original means of securing the pin was by using a plain nut with a spring washer which was more than satisfactory.
The nylock nut uses the nylon insert to resist the temptation to unwind but that resistance will rotate the pin unless the pin is loaded or a means to stop the rotation is used.
Taking your idea on board I have just mounted a nylock nut in the vice and screwed a rear spring front eye pin into it until the nylock nut started to bite. I then inserted two tight fitting pins into the pin holes, then using a flat bar between the pins turned the pin overcoming the resistance of the nylock insert. Therefore providing the pins are tight in the pin holes and using a flat bar between the pins will resist or stop the temptation of the eye pin to turn in the front spring mount eye.
My preference though if the facilities are available is to manufacture a tool along the lines of your drawing as working under the car, making sure that the two pins do not come out of the eye pin, holding the flat bar and trying to tighten the nut all at the same time is somewhat trying and so reduces the stress levels and the chance of scraped knuckles.
A simplified version of the tool could just use qty 2 3/16" high tensile Allen screws/bolts with the heads cut off and secured either side of the plate by nuts would suffice. Allen screws/bolts with a unthreaded portion that would enter the pin would be even better and could be made in a reasonably short time with just hand tools and possibly an electric drill.
Phil

[kennatt]

could one not just use a castellated nut and drill the bolt and fit a split pin,dosent comprise strength of rest of bolt.

[philthehill]

Unfortunately you have still got to tighten the nut whether it be plain, nylock, castellated or other.
Phil

[Declan_Burns]

Phil,
That simplified method will indeed work. That is exactly what I did to fabricate a new starter activator for my Suffolk Punch lawnmower!
Regards
Declan

[philthehill]

Declan
I decided to see how simple and how quickly I could make a useable and suitable tool for holding the eye pin with what I already had in the workshop.

The basis is a two peg spanner used for removing the nut on a 4" disc grinder, drilled the two holes at the required distance with electric drill, utilised two 5mm Allen screws (& plain nuts) which were put in the drill chuck and using a file reduced the size to 3/16" where they fit into the spring eye pin
Fitted it all together and it works a treat.
I had to elongate one of the holes to accommodate the variance in pin hole centres.
It took me about 1/2 hour to complete and that was including finding the parts.
I have left the two grind stone nut pegs in place as unless you have duplicate spanner removing them will make the spanner useless for its original purpose.

Phil

[firedrake1942]

Ingenious!

[firedrake1942]

Ingenious!

[Declan_Burns]

Phil,
I actually had the exact same spanner in my hands this morning hoping the original peg spacing might be correct.
Regards
Declan

[philthehill]

Two things to note when making a spanner of what ever description:-

1. I have discovered that the centres of the pin holes are not the same for all pins and that is why my tool has the slot to accommodate the slight differences in centres.

2. The depth of the pin hole varies considerably.
Therefore this afternoon I have drilled the pin holes in the spare NOS eye pins I have with a 3/16" dia drill with the depth stop of the drill press set so as to make sure that all pin holes are the same as the deepest pin hole.

[Sleeper]

Not been doing the springs , still busy rebuilding / modifying the gearbox , but made this a while ago to fit the different grinders I have...looks like it's made for the job , two pin sizes and adjustable.....and I've not patented it.

2017_0831gearbox0006.JPG (3.57 MiB) Viewed 3622 times

John

[philthehill]

The idea is good but it has to close up enough (measurement between pin centres quoted above) to fit the pins into the eye bolt holes and also fit between the pin and the underside of the body - it looks as if the jaws or body of the wrench would be in the way / foul the body underside. The pins have be 3/16" dia as well.
Phil

[dudload]

Phil, sent you a pm, or at least I tried to but looks like it may be stuck in my outbox.

I've really started an interesting discussion here! Springs arrived today and all look good, snug fit of all bushes in the eyes and brand new pins..

[philthehill]

Every discussion on here is interesting to someone.
I have replied to your PM.
Phil