Hello, I am wondering if there would be someone who can advise me on stiff 1st & 2nd shift engage.
I am Japanese who enjoys British culture of 1967 1098 98k milage.
Problem 1 : Recently I noticed an uneven knocking noise which I could felt from a brake pedal when it is idling and it gradually became louder as time goes by and I had found that noise becoming more noticeable as an engine get warm. So I thought it is related with oil related metal and after some research, I had found it is related with warn out ball bearing in gear box. So I changed 2 ball bearings front/back of gear box and the knocking noise seems stopped.(It might well be related with worn out synchromesh/baulk ring as well.)
Problem 2 : At the same time I gradually found difficulty to engage 1st gear which precisely, from Neutral - 2nd - then try to engage in 1st gear and I felt some resistance and 2,3 times tries/pushes, it had been eventually engaged and there is no problem of driving.
Thus I thought it is related with synchromeshes, I have changed 3 baulk rings for 1st/2nd, 3rd and 4th gear at the same time.
Now, I still have got the same problem with 1st gear engagement & even worse, sometimes 2nd gear as well. A left/right gear lever movement seems fine but a back/forwards movement seems an issue.
Has anyone got same problem or any advise, please?
When I reassembled gear box, I had no difficulty to move synchro unit by my hand back/forwards (Without any selector/forks being assembled) and after assembling the whole gear box unit (including a remote control), I noticed the stiff movement & after 1 or 2mile of test drive, still the problem is there. (I am wondering if it is related with worn out fork's notches and balls).
When I assembled the box I followed a very useful assemble guidance. http://www.dorsetmmoc.co.uk/wordpress/t ... ebuild.pdf
Sorry to bother you but If there would be anyone who could advise me on this matter, I would be happy !!
Thank you very much,
Best regards
Stiff 1st & 2nd gear engagement
Forum rules
By using this site, you agree to our rules. Please see: Terms of Use
By using this site, you agree to our rules. Please see: Terms of Use
-
Mark Wilson
- Minor Addict
- Posts: 960
- Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2011 12:42 pm
- Location: West Yorkshire
- MMOC Member: Yes
Re: Stiff 1st & 2nd gear engagement
Hi Naoki, welcome to the board and good to hear that someone from Japan is taking such a detailed interest in Morris Minors.
You seem to have covered the normal wear items in the gearbox, although possibly you could have also have replaced the layshaft and checked the layshaft thrust washers if you haven't already. It might sound a bit basic for someone who has done this much, but are you happy with the clutch release adjustment?
Mark
You seem to have covered the normal wear items in the gearbox, although possibly you could have also have replaced the layshaft and checked the layshaft thrust washers if you haven't already. It might sound a bit basic for someone who has done this much, but are you happy with the clutch release adjustment?
Mark
-
biomed32uk
- Minor Addict
- Posts: 630
- Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2014 5:16 pm
- Location: Gt Holland, Essex
- MMOC Member: Yes
Re: Stiff 1st & 2nd gear engagement
Welcome to the forums, I am the author of that guide you followed for the rebuild, pleased it was useful.
There is not a huge amount in the gearbox that can cause stiff operation, however it is never going to feel like the gearbox in a modern new car, and you certainly can't do quick racing changes, it's an unhurried process.
What does it feel like without the engine running, as if it does feel OK then, as per the previous post I would be looking at the clutch to make sure it is not dragging. Sure you would have looked at the clutch, as while the box is out it makes total sense to inspect it, take it apart once.
There is not a huge amount in the gearbox that can cause stiff operation, however it is never going to feel like the gearbox in a modern new car, and you certainly can't do quick racing changes, it's an unhurried process.
What does it feel like without the engine running, as if it does feel OK then, as per the previous post I would be looking at the clutch to make sure it is not dragging. Sure you would have looked at the clutch, as while the box is out it makes total sense to inspect it, take it apart once.
Re: Stiff 1st & 2nd gear engagement
Dear Mark,
Hello, thank you very much for your reply!!
Actually, this is my first car in my life & and I am trying to take whatever opportunity to take an advantage to use elbow grease which respectable elder generation went through.(No pain, no gain?)
1)Layshaft : No I haven't changed but I changed the needle rollers. Is there possibility that slight worn out layshaft makes slight waggle movement between lay gear and lay shaft thus makes stiff gear engagement of 1st & 2nd gear?
To be honest, I have just realised that I have mixed up the word of lay shaft & lay gear thus I didn't change gear related stuff. (I slightly remember that there has been a mention that the "Lay shaft" to be recommended to replace at the same time....)
2)Thrust washer : Yes I changed the thrust washer and set it the gap within the tolerance of no more than 0.003". By the way does this English mean, say, 0.001" to 0.003" ? To be honest I set it at 0.001".
3)Clutch release adjustments : Yes, I have set it as workshop manual says with a pedal free movement in 35-38mm.
Then I have got the stiff gear engagement which I had already before touching gear boxes.
5years ago, no problem and last 1year gradually become stiff and the other morning I have found I could not engage 1st gear at 1 hit.
Does this information give you any chance to give me further advise?
Thank you very much for your time, Mark.
Best regards.
Hello, thank you very much for your reply!!
Actually, this is my first car in my life & and I am trying to take whatever opportunity to take an advantage to use elbow grease which respectable elder generation went through.(No pain, no gain?)
1)Layshaft : No I haven't changed but I changed the needle rollers. Is there possibility that slight worn out layshaft makes slight waggle movement between lay gear and lay shaft thus makes stiff gear engagement of 1st & 2nd gear?
To be honest, I have just realised that I have mixed up the word of lay shaft & lay gear thus I didn't change gear related stuff. (I slightly remember that there has been a mention that the "Lay shaft" to be recommended to replace at the same time....)
2)Thrust washer : Yes I changed the thrust washer and set it the gap within the tolerance of no more than 0.003". By the way does this English mean, say, 0.001" to 0.003" ? To be honest I set it at 0.001".
3)Clutch release adjustments : Yes, I have set it as workshop manual says with a pedal free movement in 35-38mm.
Then I have got the stiff gear engagement which I had already before touching gear boxes.
5years ago, no problem and last 1year gradually become stiff and the other morning I have found I could not engage 1st gear at 1 hit.
Does this information give you any chance to give me further advise?
Thank you very much for your time, Mark.
Best regards.
Re: Stiff 1st & 2nd gear engagement
Dear biomed32uk,
Hello and thank you very much for your reply!!
And oh my dear!! I couldn't believe that I could have a direct reply from the highness author of the guide!! It is a privilege to hear from you sir.
When I reply to previous post (Mark's advise) and your advise and I gradually understand that there is a logic, every single word/step has meanings and a patience is a virtue.
1)I may have made a mistake a) that I didn't change the lay shaft and b) the possibly wrong setting of thrust washer gap at 0.001". Can this be a part of the cause of the stiff gear engagement of 1st & 2nd gear? And should the gap be 0.003" to give a bit of play?
2)Feel without engine running : Yes stiff engagement is already there. There seems no major worn out of clutch things (replaced 3years ago and covered 5k milage since then) and assembled with a centre alignment jig and set the appropriate free movement.
With your kind reply and I think I am going to utilise the easter holidays to inspect them. (Of course, I will pray for the easter as well)
Thank you very much indeed for your diligent guidance and your reply.
Best regards.
Hello and thank you very much for your reply!!
And oh my dear!! I couldn't believe that I could have a direct reply from the highness author of the guide!! It is a privilege to hear from you sir.
When I reply to previous post (Mark's advise) and your advise and I gradually understand that there is a logic, every single word/step has meanings and a patience is a virtue.
1)I may have made a mistake a) that I didn't change the lay shaft and b) the possibly wrong setting of thrust washer gap at 0.001". Can this be a part of the cause of the stiff gear engagement of 1st & 2nd gear? And should the gap be 0.003" to give a bit of play?
2)Feel without engine running : Yes stiff engagement is already there. There seems no major worn out of clutch things (replaced 3years ago and covered 5k milage since then) and assembled with a centre alignment jig and set the appropriate free movement.
With your kind reply and I think I am going to utilise the easter holidays to inspect them. (Of course, I will pray for the easter as well)
Thank you very much indeed for your diligent guidance and your reply.
Best regards.