traveller won't run

[cameronhenderson]

Hi all,
I bought a refurbished traveller about a month ago. Had been rebuilt by an old guy who has rebuilt three to date.
As I was driving home, the car began to misfire, just occasionally to start but got progressively worse as I got near home until eventually it had to be pushed into my garage. Since then I've tried everything I am capable of. Everything under the bonnet is new. I've checked it's getting fuel up to and into the carburettor (I've cleaned it out just in case), it gets a good spark, I even changed the almost new plugs to no avail. It will fire up and sometimes run very raggedly for a few seconds. But even spraying easy start directly into the carb won't start it. Recently took the rocker cover off and there was some emulsion so I thought blown head gasket but I've since been told that this may just be condensation because it hasn't been run for any length of time. I'm at my wits end. Anyone any ideas?

[greendefender123]

Could be a faulty new condenser even tho you have a spark. Do the points look ok? Does the carb look ok and Piston move up and down alright? Wouldn't bother with the easy start on one of these personally. Spark and fuel should make it fire. It will only be something simple. Mine cut out the other day. The bottom of the carb had moved.

[oliver90owner]

Could be a faulty new condenser even tho you have a spark.

Might just as easily, or more likely, be something else. Changing the condenser seems to be the first directive from them that have no clue.

The condenser is an easy component to check out. It will be dead short when testing for resistance, rising steadily to a very high value (MOhms). The spark will not be a hard blue , but a warmer yellow, colour and would likely not jump a 7-mm test gap. There will be excessive sparking and burning of the contact points if the condenser is faulty.

A good spark is one thing, but whether that energy is being distributed by the rotor arm and cap is another. A good spark while testing from the king lead (from the coil) to earth will check the condenser and points. A poor spark at the plugs could be rotor, cap or leads. Just a matter or isolating the problem.

Now to the real diagnosis. If a good strong ble spark at the plugs, check the plugs for colour of electrode. Sooty means excess fuel and light ash colour may mean starvation. Soaking wet plug electrodes will be far too much fuel.

Poor spark could be breaker gap, wrong type of leads, wrong type of plug or even a poor supply to the coil. Intermittent spark could be a shorting wire within the distributor, or poor feed from the battery/ignition switch.

Your first priority is to determine whether the fault is ignition or fuel related. Messing with both is a recipe for more problems.

Regarding the fuel pump - it should deliver far more fuel than required by a factor of ten, or more. If not, under free flow conditions, it may be a problem.

Did you check the valve clearances while the cover was off? A couple of tight valves could cause the symptoms you describe. I doubt this to be the case, unless the engine was not run hot, head bolts tightened down and clearances set by the installer.

As I say, start with basics. Take ofv the HT from the coil, manually open the points with a screw driver and check the spark to earth. You should get a bright blue spark which will easil jump 6-mm or more. Startbthere and report back.

RAB

[kennatt]

if it doesn't start with easy start,then is has to be electrical because even with a weak spark,a shot of easy start will have the result of a fire up,might not run ,but will fire up. good spark,how are you checking this. Check points gap,could well have closed up after the rebuild,Carb.....screw jet right up then 12 flats back down to initially setting and try that. The emulsion is common with most,its caused by cold running and usually clears once hot,even with a blown gasket it would still start and run,the only sure way is a compression test. Check the small wire in the distributor sometimes it breaks up inside the sheathing and makes intermittent continuity give it a pull and see if it separates, good luck

[Mark Wilson]

Changing the condenser seems to be the first directive from them that have no clue.

There are plenty of websites where people can make derogatory comments about others. This site is usually far more polite and while we don't always agree, offensive comments really aren't necessary.

[les]

I too thought that very condescending, we're not all stupid.

[amgrave]

The fact that over 90% of condensers supplied today fail within one year might have something to do with it, and some fail within a week.
Rude comment I think

[dalebrignall]

you can get good quality condensers from a firm called distributer doctor

[firedrake1942]

Condensers at dawn !

[amgrave]

Might not last till dawn, unless it's from Dist. Doc. of course

[oliver90owner]

Condensers at dawn !

Condensers are not a wearing item. They either are a working item, or not. Easy to test. Easy to eliminates as the problem. No point in replacing (on a whim) if the problem is likely to only occur again within 12 months (failure rate of 90% quoted above) with a cheap low quality item.


I have extensive experience of ignition systems - both magneto and Kettering systems. I have only experienced two (or perhaps three ) condenser failures in close to 60 year's of these systems. Admittedly I have driven diesels on the road for the latter 30 years, but my 15-20 spark ignition systems (old tractors, motorcycles, stationary engines, garden cultivators, etc) are all working without recourse to condenser changes in that period.

Simply suggesting the poster changes the condenser without any substantive reason is, frankly, spending tne OP's money without consideration of the fault. Condensers are so easy to confirm or eliminate as the culprit. What is so difficult to check the quality of the ignition spark? It costs nothing. There are too many 'armchair responders' to posts, with unsubstantiated fixes to problems that are really unrelated to the supposed symptoms.

Please yourself, for what advice may be offered, but do reject those with suggestions without any reasoning or justification. End of rant.

[greendefender123]

2 out 3 new condensers we have fitted have gone wrong. 1st on the jago when new points and condenser were fitted. Ran fine round the field then started playing up on the 1st trial. Refitting the old points and condenser finished the trial. We then changed them back. Still problems. Points looked good so refitted old condenser. After another trial and half the points failed. We refitted the old points. 3 years later we fitted a accuspark distributor as the points were getting old. Beetle was playing up after new points and condenser. Was fine with the new points and refitting the condenser till the engine needed rebuilding a 1000 miles later. The landy ran just as bad with either new or points and condenser. Tho that was 10+ years ago and long scrapped. Surely its a quick and easy check if you've got the old condenser or have a spare you can borrow. I'm leaving mine well along on my moggie till I get any problems. I don't know as much as you or some other forum members was giving him some ideas. Sorry for any confusion

[les]

Some of my best diagnoses have been made from an armchair!

[kennatt]

some of my worst have been from an armchair after half a bottle of malt

[Monty-4]

I'm no expert - just speaking from anecdotal experience - but I had many condensers fail. Could it be compounded by the points also being of poor quality?

I run an "electronic" system now, which is by no means unbreakable, and have a spare dizzy with Distributor Doctor components in the boot. The ignition system is the only thing that has ever let me down on the Morris other than a worn starter spindle o-ring on my old HIF38 flooding the engine. The latter being my own fault as it's a modification!

All the best and good luck OP!

[Biggles1957]

See, driving a diesel for the last 30 odd years probably suggests experience of old condensers which I agree, indeed hardly ever fail. However, new condensers made from recycled fizzy drinks cans, plastic bottles and the like in some far eastern factory are about as reliable as a chocolate fire guard. They are well known to frequently work intermittently before total failure, or work until they get warm then fail - so to state that a condenser either works or it doesn't is a fallacy when referring to modern items. I agree wholeheartedly with earlier comments about the condescending tone of the post and for the tiny cost involved a new condenser from a known reliable source such as DD would straightaway eliminate that component as a reason for the failure to run. If it were my car I would most certainly look to the condenser and replace it. Tiny rant over.....

[myoldjalopy]

I wonder how his car is in all this!!

[oliver90owner]

FYI. Last time the mini broke down was somewhere between Hunstanton and Peterborough. Just stopped.

I immediately checked for spark at the plug leads. None. Did I changevthe condenser? No I did not!

I then checked at the king lead to earth for spark. None. That indicated (yes, a clue) that it was not likely plug leads, distributor cap or rotor arm (note I said 'likely').

Next I checked for spark from the king lead by manually opening the points. No spark (not even a weak yellow one or any spark at the points. I noted the points were in perfect order, but cleaned them anyway, so not them at fault.

I then proceeded to check for supply voltage (no test kit at the road side). Found a loose and corroded lucar connector, which when wriggled and bent a bit solved the problem.

Changed the connector when back home and scrubbed up the male connector. No problem since. Job sorted. Sorted without resort to changing theccondenser even once.

I have never said the problem (this thread, or any other) is not due to a faulty condenser. It may be. But checking and finding a strong hard blue spark at the time of breakdown (and engine will still not start) is indicative that the fault lies elsewhere. Checking costs nothing and takes rather less time than changing a condenser (which, in itself, may prove challenging for some). It may depend on what the OP thinks is a good spark -and it may not be as good as it should be. I don't know.

All I advise is: starting with a clue, not without, is a far better way to solve a problem than jumping in blindly.

In the last approx 6 months I have sorted out 9 (I think) non running spark ignition engines. Three required only new spark plugs to get them running (even if not correctly), one required the contact points cleaning, one was sparking 180 degrees out of time, one required the carburettor sorting, one the fuel supply was blocked, another had the electronic ignition module bolted on too far from the flywheel. Several discarded (sold at auction), but all perfectly serviceable with a little attention - but not one condenser changed. Would I have cured any one of them by changing the condensor? I think not. A moggie engine is no different.

The most recent enigma was of my brother's tractor. I was not involved as he is seventy miles away. Symptoms were that it would move 3-4 metres and stop. Not engine related; a transmission problem. Apparently there are close to 300 sensors within the sytem that might have caused the fault. Did he start changing things blindly? No, he first checked out the fault codes and found one sensor that would not reset. Only recourse was that of changing the sensor (about £120?). Unfortunately, for him, it did not solve the problem. After extensive conversations with a systems expert and further checks he found the transmission would work perfectly while the warning flashing indicators were operating! Problem eventually sorted, but the engineer had never come across an exactly similar situation - but he has now!
A good job our moggies are not as complex!

[les]

Yep we've got the picture. l don't think people replace things without having some reason for doing so, even if it does fall short of your precise analysis. If they didn't give it some thought, we'd be hearing stories of folk replacing the exhaust system if the car was loosing oil pressure! I think you should be less judgemental of us, were harmless enough!

[Nickol]

Roy A was famous for "It's never the coil "

Perhaps Oliver, you will be now known as " It's never the condenser"