Aldon Ignition equipment

Post by **martylemoo** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 10:08 pm

Hi,
Would you rate aldon as the best ignition equipment to buy, I am looking for distributor, coil and electronic ignition. I was speaking to Tom Airey today and he has recommended aldon, just wanted a second opinion before i splash the cash.
Cheers
Martyn

Post by **Cam** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 11:06 am

Yes, I can heartily recommend Aldon. I have bought their products before and would have no hesitation in doing so again.

Post by **salty_monk** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 12:50 pm

Me too...

If you're going to buy an advance modified distributor then buy the electronic ignition at the same time, it's much cheaper to buy it as a whole kit...

Post by **bmcecosse** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:09 pm

My personal view is - just stick with good old points ! There is no advantage with electronic ignition - and when it goes wrong you are really stuck. Points etc easily fixed. If the ignition advance curve is not correct (how do you know ?) then just modify it yourself.

Post by **Cam** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:29 pm

There is no advantage with electronic ignition

1. No need to adjust points at service intervals.
2. Points wear out and need replacement. Electronic Igntion (Aldon) doesn't (no moving parts).
3. Dwell angle always spot on.
4. Less components to go faulty. condenser etc.
5. Immune to corrosion, damp, oil etc.

when it goes wrong you are really stuck

This is true though. The way around it is to carry a spare set of points which you can swap over at the roadside and get going again.

The sealed modules rarely go wrong though.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:34 pm

And of course I answer

Adjusting points once a year is hardly arduous !
Ditto above - points can last for years
Ditto above - once set, that's it !
MORE components to go wrong with electronic ignition - that's the trouble !
Very susceptible to corrosion of connectors. Just as liable to misfire if damp.

Post by **57traveller** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:42 pm

My Traveller - electronic ignition. fitted four years ago.
My Saloon - conventional WELL MAINTAINED ignition.

Which vehicle needed RAC attendance due to points problem? (I had no tools

) - Saloon

Which vehicle has had no ignition related problems? - Traveller

QED

Post by **rayofleamington** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:43 pm

I am also happy to stay with points as they are nice and simple (and I don't have a tuned engine), but the electronic versions give a much more accurate spark timing. As the points are moving parts, opening and closing a switch they just can't compete.
I've never done the comparison myself but I've heard from people using a strobe that you can see the improvement in accuracy.

Post by **paulk** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:52 pm

I am quite happy to stay with points on our minor but have to admit most times I've called out the AA over the years it's been electrical and often points/condenser related.

haven't had any problems with electronic ignition even on fairly old motors.

Paulk

Post by **Cam** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 2:03 pm

bmcecosse wrote:And of course I answer

Adjusting points once a year is hardly arduous !
Ditto above - points can last for years
Ditto above - once set, that's it !
MORE components to go wrong with electronic ignition - that's the trouble !
Very susceptible to corrosion of connectors. Just as liable to misfire if damp.

Ok then!

Adjusting points is not arduous at all, but with electronic ignition you don't need to do it at all EVER!!!

Points CAN last for years, but it's not recommended for reliable operation. They do wear on the contacts due to spark erosion. Electronic ignition does NOT suffer from this at all.

Points CAN close up over time - we have had this problem reported MANY times on here. Electronic Ignition CANNOT suffer wth this problem.

The components in the Aldon unit are sealed in a resin block and are solid-state, so there are fewer 'parts' to go wrong. There is no condenser to fail, securing nuts to fall off, contacts to corrode, break or need cleaning.

Very susceptible to corrosion of connectors. Just as liable to misfire if damp

NOT true! The Aldon unit has 2 'connections' + and - on coil. None inside the dizzy. The damp can affect the contacts on the points. This is impossible with the electronic version as there are no contacts (open to the air or otherwise to GET damp!).

Don't get me wrong though. I'm happy with points generally, but your statement: "There is no advantage with electronic ignition" is quite clearly wrong!

Especially with tuned engines as Ray states. Plus you don't get the points bounce either at high RPM!

Post by **martylemoo** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 2:09 pm

thanks for the replies, seems aldon stuff is top notch, i am definately going down the electronic route as my engine is in quite a high state of tune and i want to get the best out of it the most trouble free way. Just one other quick query, do i have to buy the vacuum advance distributor? or can i buy the non vacuum one and just blank off the pipe from the carb?
cheers
Martyn

Post by **Cam** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 2:19 pm

You CAN get the non-vac dizzy, but you will loose out on miles-per-gallon. Non-vac types are usually used for racing where economy is not an issue. The vac has absolutely no advancing effect when you floor the throttle anyway. It's used to advance the timing under part throttle and deceleration (no throttle) to provide economy.

Post by **Kevin** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 4:56 pm

Well I agree with both camps and agree with both points of view apart from below

Adjusting points once a year is hardly arduous !
Ditto above - points can last for years
Ditto above - once set, that's it !

To keep the point in full working order requires a bit more attention than the above unless you are doing very low mileages, and the heel does wear as well as the points themselves even with a bit of lubrication.

Post by **salty_monk** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 5:00 pm

I have a non vacuum modified advance Aldon on my kit car (brings you to max advance earlier) but I definitely lose out on MPG ( I would say 5mpg on average although I only get somewher between 14 & 25 anyway....).
The major advangtage is that with a twin side draught webber or similar you can't actually get a connection to connect it to as if you connect it to one side you get pulsing. (Not sure about the SU's - twin variant may have a connection) but CAM has proven a bigger single is more reliable with no loss of power in any case.
Unless you are going for Twin sidedraughts or similar where you physically can't get a connection then just get the vacuum variety...

For ease & reliability on tuned motors the Aldon kit is the way forward - points do work well but the Aldon stuff has the edge... (saying that the moggy has points as it's standard & I can't justify the expense..)

Post by **Cam** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 5:04 pm

Yes, I run both (when the cars are on the road!). For the sake of originality I can understand the idea of points, but electronic ignition has it's place too! I only have electronic on my 4-door Minor (and modern Rover of course). All the other cars have points.

Electronic Ignition is certainly not pointless......... (*cringe at truely AWFUL pun*)

Post by **paulk** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 5:07 pm

Damn

I thought we could get all the way to 20 replies before that joke turned up

Paulk

Post by **Alec** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 5:09 pm

Hello all,
as an aside, I believe that it was the vacuum advance on the MGA Twin Cam engine that caused all the unreliability. Some phenomenon caused it to operate at high revs doing the pistons no good whatsoever. Incidentally I went elctronic many years ago and it failed. The breakdown man couldn't even diagnose the fault , the second failure got me back to points again and I still am. (Not an Aldon system, by the way. Aldon are an old tuning firm who used to specialise in 'A' series engines and suspension tuning and have rolling road facilities in Birmingham.)
As a final comment, my Triumph had no vacuum advance but then it idles at about 8"Hg.

Alec

Post by **bmcecosse** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 8:45 pm

This always brings on a good arguement !! The Vizard book actually shows an engine converted to electronic ignition - with LESS power than it had on points !! And for a road car there is no advantage power wise - but if higher voltage can be generated then the plugs can be run with bigger gaps which in turn will ignite a weaker mixture - so there may be an economy advantage. the ways and means to modify the dizzy are all explained in Vizard's book too. Vacuum advance certainly helps economy on part throttle working - but it also helps the engine to accelerate when flooring the throttle - the ignition is that wee bit advanced from the vacuum and it makes it feel just a bit more lively. But in the end - it's a personal thing - I just stick with what I know - and I carry a complete spare dizzy and coil with me all the time ! Of course - I also carry a spare cylinder head, head gasket, fuel pump, points/condenser/rotor arm/cap with leads - just in case !

Post by **Alec** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 7:40 am

Hello BMC,
but surely when you accelerate the richer mixture doesn't want that extra advance?
I carry a distributor cap and rotor arm but no points; although my Triumph PI has two fuel pumps plumbed in. Funnily, these notoriously unreliable pumps never seem to fail!!

Alec

Post by **Cam** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 10:30 am

bmcecosse wrote:This always brings on a good arguement !!

it certainly does!

The Vizard book actually shows an engine converted to electronic ignition - with LESS power than it had on points !!

Blimey! The electronic ignition system he was testing can't have been up to much then!!

They should be exactly the same (except very high RPM where the points start to bounce).

And for a road car there is no advantage power wise

I don't think power is the reason for the conversion. They should be the same, surely? (except very high RPM where the points start to bounce).

but if higher voltage can be generated then the plugs can be run with bigger gaps which in turn will ignite a weaker mixture - so there may be an economy advantage.

That's usually a coil & plug gap issue NOT a points/electronic ignition issue. They should both cope with higher/lower LT current.

the ways and means to modify the dizzy are all explained in Vizard's book too. Vacuum advance certainly helps economy on part throttle working - but it also helps the engine to accelerate when flooring the throttle - the ignition is that wee bit advanced from the vacuum and it makes it feel just a bit more lively.

As you start to floor the throttle, yes. But as soon as you have floored it and the plate has moved then there is no advance from the vac side of things. If you stamp on the accelerator then you will be talking about a VERY small power gain for a few milli-seconds. Of course if you floor it SLOWLY then you might have a point, but you will get far more power by flooring it faster!

But in the end - it's a personal thing - I just stick with what I know - and I carry a complete spare dizzy and coil with me all the time !

Absolutely. I like the idea of points which is why I use them on my other cars. In fact I prefer using points on original cars that don't need the electronic ignition. BUT! Electronic ignition DOES have it's uses and on a heavily modified engine it can be advantageous for the reasons detailed above.

Of course - I also carry a spare cylinder head, head gasket, fuel pump, points/condenser/rotor arm/cap with leads - just in case !

Well, I carry a spare fuel pump, points/condenser/rotor arm/cap with leads but I don't carry a cylinder head or gasket as it's too heavy and bulky to carry around with me all the time. Plus I don't fancy doing it at the roadside in the dark and rain. I'd tow it home and replace it there!