starting up -Float chamber lid off?

[Mnkyno4]

Hi All,

Relative newbie with very small knowledge of cars so be be kind.
I'm trying to start up my old 1986 morris 1000 salloon, with little success, starter turns over but engine won't fire.

I think there is a blockage somewhere in the carburetor as the fuel pump ticks and squirts petrol when the hose to the carb is off, but the pump seems to stop when the hose is connected to the carb again.
A chap at an auto shop sugested there may be some "varnish" in the float chamber so he said to clean it.

My question is , is it ok to just remove the lid of the float chamber and clean it in situ? Can I even remove the lid and add some fuel to the float chanber and try and turn over the engine with the float chamber lid off?

Looking at other posts and vids on Youtube it looks like it would be ok, but I thought I'd ask the elders of the MMOC for wisdom.

Thanks
Phil

[bmcecosse]

Highly unlikely The pump and float are working exactly as they should. Just to confirm - put an eggcup of petrol directly down the carb inlet and crank it. If still no life - look to the Ignition which is by far the most likely problem. Clean and gap the points - clean the plugs - and check all connections. Get a FREE 'Morris Minor Workshop Manual' as a download from Google.

[Mnkyno4]

thanks bmcecosse

I gave the plugs a quick scrub with some petrol and an old tooth brush, but I can take them out and give them and take some emery paper too them if you think that'd be best.


Just to check the carb inlet is that what is revealed once the air filter is off?

Thanks

Phil

[Mnkyno4]

it's a 1968 morris ( I just re read my post) I'm sure that hasn't escaped notice

[amgrave]

Air filter off is correct.

[oliver90owner]

Before starting to pour fuel into the engine, do check for spark at the plug(s) and also check if the plugs are wet with fuel after cranking.

Is there compression? A few squirts of oil into the plug holes and turning the engine without plugs may well improve the situation.

The most likely problem is the ignition system and it may only need a nail board scrubbing between the contact breaker points to get a spark, if there is presently none.

Are you conversant with a multimeter? Useful for checking the electrical side. If removing the float bowl cover, check to see if there is any fuel there, check that the pump delivers fuel through the needle valve controlled by the foat. Does it have fresh fuel? Old, stale fuel may well be well past its use-by date.

How long since it was last run? Weeks, months, years or decades? What condition was the engine in, when last running?

RAB

[bmcecosse]

Don't put emery near the plugs! An eggcup of fuel down the carb is the quick and easy way to check if fuel is the problem....do it before disturbing anything else!

[Mnkyno4]

Thanks for all the info

I will try the egg cup full of Petrol first then move onto the Points if that doesn't fire up.

I'm right in thinking I can check if the plugs are sparking by removing them one at a time and turning the engine over with them earthing onto the chassis?

Phil

Oliver- The car hasn't been turned over in about 5 years when I moved it to a new garage and prior to that about 5 years previous when it was run as my main car (only about 2000 miles a year) the engine has just clocked at 104K . From what I can remember I think the engine was running ok, one of the cylinders was not firing all the time. That coupled with a problem I was having with the clutch is why I took it off the road. My plan was to get teh engine running and take it to a mechanic friend to see if it is possible to get it road worthy without it needing lots of welding work etc

[liammonty]

Just remember that if the engine fires after adding fuel straight in the carb, it doesn't necessarily mean that fuel isn't getting through - if the fuel has been sitting in the car for 5 years, it may well have gone off. So it may well be getting through, but not be sufficiently volatile to ignite.

As Oliver suggested, the best things to do would be to check for a spark, and also to remove a plug or 2 after cranking the engine to see whether they are wet with petrol. This will help you narrow down the problem.

If the engine was running on 3 before its 5 year lay up, I would be checking the ignition side of things as a priority.

Re checking whether the plugs are sparking, you'll find it easier to earth the plug to the head or block of the engine, unless you have extremely long HT leads

[bmcecosse]

Good point about 'old petrol' - didn't know it had stood for 5 years. It will never start on fuel that old. Still try the eggcup with fresh petrol (or frankly a good squirt of 'carb and choke'cleaner will have a similar effect- it will tell you if the engine is basically willing to go.

[oliver90owner]

You would be better advised to get your mechanic friend to look it over, before starting/driving it. There may be several safety issues, and possibly further damage occuring to areas where problems exist already. Take note of LM's post. Initial diagnosis is important. Things like 'does the oil pressure warning light go out while cranking? '?

Starting the engine with no lubrication, while not so very likely, could destroy it in short time. If it was misfiring before it was laid up, that fault is still likely there. Could be the distributor cap insulation breaking down, or one spark plug or lead. Could be a deeper mechanical problem.

Changing lots of things, without knowing which is the problem, is counter-productive. Engines need compression, fuel and air in the right proportions and a spark at the right time. They will run, of sorts, over a fairly wide range of settings, but only optimally if all are correct. Extra faults make it more difficult to get itvrunning.

For instance, if the distributor cap was tracking to another plug, it may well mean that it might only start on two cylinders now, so the ignition system needs checking out to avoid that scenario.

In all likelihood, it will be one simple fix to get it running. These engines are simple, compared with modern computer controlled versions. Fixes are simple - once you know what the problem is!

[Mnkyno4]

Thanks Again

And I will take it one step at a time, get some fresh petrol.

I feel OK going through the problems so far and trying to fix the ignition/fuel side of things as the engine is so easy to work on. Things like welding and such would be what I'd need the pro for , basically to get his/her opinion on if the car is in a good enough state to get up and running without damaging my limited savings.

Phil

[amgrave]

If the fuel is old and there is a fair bit in the tank don't tip the fresh petrol in to mix with it. It would be best to get the old petrol out first before putting fresh in. If the pump is working OK you can disconnect the fuel pipe where it goes into the carb and pump the old fuel out that way, make sure the battery is charged up enough though.

[bmcecosse]

Cost of engine repairs are insignificant compared to welding/bodywork repairs. Don't fret about the engine too much till you get the car fully surveyed for whatever else it needs.

[Mnkyno4]

Thanks BMCecosse I will see if my mechanic friend can pop round and have a look

I have been working through the check list posted by people above and have made some progress. I will post where I'm up to later.
Ta

[bmcecosse]

Take the sill covers off as a first move - and inspect the crossmember very carefully. Poking hard with a blunt chisel!!

[Mnkyno4]

Thanks I'll try that.

Just an update and thanks to all who helped

Scraped the distributer contacts clean ast there was some deposits on them, cleaned the points contacts, cleaned corrosion off the solennoid earth ( as it was heating up and melted the rubber cover), checked the plugs-they were wet and they sparked if a little orange.

Car started after a few goes and ran, if very clunkily.

So the intially question of the float lid etc is answered I guess.

Also rang my local garage and he's happy to come out and hanve a look I'll get the sills off ready.

Thanks All, I will no doubt be posting more soon.