Non-Starter

[Chillit71]

Hi,
I'm hoping someone on here might be able to help get my 1972 Austin Minor Van started?
The engine has been completely overhauled, a new wiring loom has been installed and all other parts relating to running the engine have either been replaced or cleaned up.
The problem I'm having is that the engine will happily turn over but will not fire up! I'm getting a spark at the plugs, however it appears to be a weak spark (yellow in colour). I've checked (and rechecked) the wiring, points and plugs gap but everything seems ok .
Anyone got any advice??
Cheers,
Charlie

[diggerjones]

Are the plug leads going to the correct plug. Maybe the condenser. Where abouts are you. I've got a 72 austin van.

[oliver90owner]

You need a blue spark, preferably able to jump a 6mm gap easily.

Low coil current (high resistance at connectors or contact breaker points), low voltage supply, a too small contact breaker gap (allowing arcing) or a leaking condenser are the usual culprits. The Kettering ignition system is a relatively simple affair.

Is the coil wired the correct way round? Not too much resistance in the HT part, resistance leads, plugs and possibly other? Any leakage within the distributor cap or from the HT coil lead?

RAB

[RobThomas]

20p says condenser is duff or the timing is 180 degrees out. Actually, I raise the stakes to 20p and a Custard Cream biscuit. Any takers?

[bmcecosse]

Is there any petrol getting through? Pour an egg cup of petrol down the carb throat and crank it. Is the spark at #1 happening when the piston is at TDC - with both valves closed ?? And make sure there is not an 'R' in the plug code.

[Chillit71]

Are the plug leads going to the correct plug. Maybe the condenser. Where abouts are you. I've got a 72 austin van.

Hi,
Cheers for the reply
I've replaced the condenser so that should be ok.
With regards to plug leads (see photo), starting from top and going clockwise they go 1-3-4-2 as per firing order - is this correct?
I'm in Long Eaton Nottingham, are you close??[frame][/frame]

[Chillit71]

You need a blue spark, preferably able to jump a 6mm gap easily.

Low coil current (high resistance at connectors or contact breaker points), low voltage supply, a too small contact breaker gap (allowing arcing) or a leaking condenser are the usual culprits. The Kettering ignition system is a relatively simple affair.

Is the coil wired the correct way round? Not too much resistance in the HT part, resistance leads, plugs and possibly other? Any leakage within the distributor cap or from the HT coil lead?

RAB

Coil is wired so that positive lead goes to distributer and contact breaker gap is set at 0.016 - the max gap as stated in m'trusty Haynes Manual

[Chillit71]

20p says condenser is duff or the timing is 180 degrees out. Actually, I raise the stakes to 20p and a Custard Cream biscuit. Any takers?

Ha ha, well I've replaced the condenser so that shouldn't be the problem. With regards to the timing how can I check it's right? The bloke who built my engine to told me to set the distributor so that it was roughly pointing to Number 3 cylinder, which would get the timing nearly correct and then adjust when running.
If you win the bet I'll gladly throw in a full packet of custard creams

[shoebone]

firing order is 1 3 4 2 ANTI clockwise

[RobThomas]

Yup. That's 10p and half a Custard Cream. Do I get the bit with the cream on or the one without?


Timing...Rocker cover off. Turn engine until timing marks are in line with the notch on the pulley. Both valves on the rearmost cylinder have a bit of slack in them? If no, rotate the engine one full turn until they are. Now the timing should have the rotor arm pointing at number one plug. If not, plug leads off and set them as Shoebone says.
Take cap off of distributor, turn on ignition (maybe pull wire off of fuel pump if it keeps trying to pump), connect lightbulb or AVO meter between the coil lead (with the white/black that runs between coil and terminal on dissy) and earth. Ignition on, turn engine clockwise with starting handle and the light should suddenly come on somewhere near to the timing marks at TDC for both number 1 and number 4 cylinder.
Cup of tea and a custard cream, replace wires and so on, start engine. Bob's yer uncle.
If it doesn't start, can you take some more photos?

[oliver90owner]

Question: Do you have a strong blue spark, yet?

The engine is likely not going to start unless the spark is good. Simply opening the contact breaker points manually should provide a strong blue spark, from the coil HT lead to earth, capable of jumping several millimetres.

A weak yellow spark in air is highly likely going to fail to jump the plug gap when under compression with an air/fuel mixture - and even more so, if the electrodes are wet. Do get your priorities right. A strong spark comes before any timing issues there ''might'' be.

[bmcecosse]

Don't worry about spark colour just put the leads on correct order- as above ANTI clock round the dizzy. If still no go (and have you tried the petrol??) then move the leads round one space at a time to see if it fires up before worrying too much about accurate timing. That comes later when it's warmed up and idling well- then you adjust for best idle, along with mixture also for best idle.

[oliver90owner]

Chillit71,

Don't worry about spark colour 

So speaketh one opinion. Have you got a spare set of contact breaker points to fit if the condenser is carp? The only weak spark I would tolerate is from a magneto, without impulse coupling, at slow speed. It is so easy to check the condenser, coil, etc that it is barking mad, IMO, to trust to pot luck. Do the job properly and you will know you have a spark inside the cylinders.

Checking costs nothing but time; repairs usually cost money. My advice is worth exactly what you paid for it. Heed or ignore is your choice, but being advised against it is something else.

RAB

[RobThomas]

Ha ha, well I've replaced the condenser so that shouldn't be the problem

Shouldn't being the operative word. Quality isn't what it use to be.

[Chillit71]

Thanks to all who posted replies and advice, it really was a great help and very much appreciated.
Tonight I reset the timing, put the plugs in the correct order going ANTI-clockwise, checked that fuel was in then float chamber, turned the key and she burst into life - really was a wonderful sight and sound!!
So thanks again to you all, no doubt I will be on here again soon pestering you for more help

[bmcecosse]

Well done - the anti-clock catches out many - it seems so counter intuitive.