Car comparison

[SteveClem]

Just got my 1972 beetle back after serious welding etc. Curious to compare it to my Morris Minors. In some ways it feels more modern and in others way more primitive. They were direct competitors in their era and it's very interesting to compare well sorted out examples now. I believe that Issigonis hated the beetle but that vw were saved by a British army major who revived the Hitler era car in the late '40's.
Funny that visitors instantly like or dislike one or the other. Youngsters seem to prefer the beetle.

[greendefender123]

Oo iv had both. Still have nightmares of the engines. Always felt the beetle had modern features but felt like it would roll going round corners. Mine was so badly rotted everywhere. We've just sold my father's beetle. The engine was always coming out for a rebuild. But when it was running it was ok. Tho his beetle replacement is a Jaguar xk8 4.2 so a slight upgrade. Iv never driven a minor yet so can't really compare but im preferring it so far. Dont know why iv just bought a t2 camper with 1600 beetle engine tho!

[greendefender123]

My fathers old Beetle.[frame][/frame]

[greendefender123]

And mine.

Obviously I wont be off roading my Traveller and fathers XK8 will be abit pampered.[frame][/frame][frame][/frame]

[irmscher]

Loads of magazines have compared the beetle with the minor and usually the Minor came out slightly on top.

[olderisbetter]

I have both and they both have charms and character, amazingly friends wife cannot tell a beetle from a minor....

[irmscher]

I was never keen on the pedal set up on a VW

[greendefender123]

I was never keen on the pedal set up on a VW

The throttle soon falls off the beetle and your left with the little wheel. Both our beetles were like this.

[Chipper]

When I first started driving, I was given my mum's 1970 Traveller (which I still have), while my pal was heavily into VW Beetles, and bought his first, a 1969 1300, from a local guy who did up hot rods in his garage.

It looked pretty good, having had a respray in dark blue, but hid a multitude of sins - rust, dodgy wiring, etc. I briefly drove it, and it felt rather odd with the floor-hinged pedals. It was also rather gutless on long motorway inclines, which the Minor would sail up with ease. It was also very uncomfortable to spend any length of time in the rear seat, feeling very claustrophobic (no opening rear windows).

Alas, after my friend had spent a lot on cosmetic upgrades to it (Empi alloys, stereo, new trim, etc.), he had been doing some work on the rear brakes one day and didn't quite complete the job for some reason, went for a drive with a pal, and ended up losing the back end on a corner and wrapping it around a large tree! Fortunately, they both escaped in one piece, but the car was a write-off, literally banana'd. It put me off them, but he went on to restore another, properly this time; I helped him lift the body off and repaint the floorpan.

A lad in the unit next door to where I work recently bought a nice looking 1972 1300S (GT) beetle to replace his Peugeot 106, but is selling it after just a few months as he's had lots of trouble with it, and finds it too slow, and heavy on fuel.

[Blaketon]

Both were regarded as amongst the best small cars of their times and in his notes, Issogonis made comparisons between the Minor and the Beetle.

My experience of a Beetle (And other VWs of that era) was that build quality was second to none and it was certainly far better than BL cars of the early 1970s. My father tells me that Nuffield cars were better built than BMC cars and that BL cars became worse than BMC cars had been. These days, a lot of that comes down to who rebuilt the car.

My mother had a 1300 Beetle and that could be driven at 70mph all day (It would only do about 75 flat out); it was clearly designed with Autobahns in mind. The Minor really needs higher gearing to hold 70mph for long periods. Beetle road holding was not a strong point and as Issogonis pointed out, the location of the engine was largely responsible for that. The Porsche 356 had similar characteristics and when my father got a job at AFN (Later to become Porsche GB), the boss warned him that the handling of the 356 was iffy and that they were a bit lethal in the wet….but that they didn’t tell the customers that!! Perhaps the Minor’s stronger road holding and the VW’s superior high speed cruising ability reflect the roads of Germany and Britain, during the period in which they were designed.

VW carburetion was never very good; the automatic chokes were sometimes temperamental and sometimes (Due to the air cooling system), they could ice up in the Winter.

Beetle brakes were lacking but I’m not sure how well the “Chassis” would have coped with better ones. I know they fitted discs to later ones but these had revised McPherson Strut front suspension.

Those old air cooled VWs had tremendous heaters but if they went wrong, you could end up gassing yourself!!

Engine access was not good on the VW and like the Porsche, it was standard practice for dealers to drop the engine out, service it and put it back in from underneath (It is only held in by four bolts). VW were much more in favour of dealer servicing (I seem to remember there was socket for dealer diagnostics even then), whereas Morris were more keen to provide information to the owner, on how to service the car themselves. BMC/BL handbooks were always far better than VW handbooks and for all the routine service stuff, a BMC handbook was all you needed.

The Beetle luggage area was split and whilst it could be made into a two seater, generally I think the Minor was better in that respect.

The Minor was available in more options, such as an estate, van or pickup. The VW Type 3 was a bigger car but I’m not sure whether the Variant model (Estate) had much more room in the boot, than my Traveller has, since the boot floor was very high, as the engine was underneath it. There was of course a front boot and the later ones had higher bonnet lines, to make the front boot bigger. They were however lethal on cross winds!!

[GBond]

Very thorough explanation.

My experience with Beetles is limited to having them as taxis back when I was living in Mexico and even in the most abused examples the doors felt solid and strong. For taxi use, the front passenger seat would be removed which left space for three people and some luggage, with easy entry and exit (or six students, trying to hide whenever a police car was nearby).

With Minors, I own about 25% of the running examples in my country (and 100% of the pick-ups!) so my experience is a bit more limited but they definitely seem much more fragile. The suspension and oil pan were absolutely destroyed in mine when we got it with only about 32,000 km (as far as we know, engine didn't look like it had done more).

Roadholding is better in the Minor, even comparing it to an early 1990's Beetle, but it is a bit slower and the brakes require more effort but that's probably because it was a 90's Beetle.

[irmscher]

Chipper that's how I felt with the pedals .I don't know if this was a myth in the 70,s but it was said if the passenger stamped his foot on the floorpan the car lurched forward as the accelerator cable was right underneath ??

[greendefender123]

Beetle parts are also mega expensive.

The problem with the passenger using the throttle through the carpet will be a missing plate. This kept my father on his toes when we used to do 24 hour endurance trials lol.

[SteveClem]

Well,it's been interesting since I got the old bug home. Intermittently coughing and farting then running perfectly. Thought it was the auto choke sticking but turned out to be the new electronic ignition playing up. Accuspark too. Surprised because the same system has been perfect on the minors and the a30.

[irmscher]

How are you going on with the Volkswagen Steve

[SteveClem]

They replaced the faulty electronic ignition and all is well,thanks.
I rather like it. Easy to see why minors and beetles were/are such popular cars,they both have lots of character and are very usable.