Pellets?

Post by **lucamarzana** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 6:35 am

Hi,
I think you have already talked about this problem but I couldn't find related messages so.....
What do you think about metal pellets into the tank instead of using specific liquids to "upgrade" fuel? I red in Classic Cars that pellets is a "nonsense". I would like to know your opinion. Thanks.
Luca

p.s. sorry for my english. Hope you understand anyway.

Post by **Cam** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 11:13 am

I think that the general opinion is that pellets are rubbish and the liquid additives actually work! I personally use Castrol Valvemaster Plus, which is one of the very few additives that are recommended by the Federation of British Historic Vehicle Clubs (after testing quite a few).

Post by **Gareth** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 11:22 am

Cam's right that the general conception is that pellets are rubbish, although I've got a bag aof Broquet Fuel Catalyst pellets in Phyllis' tank, and it appears to have done no harm.

I use RON95 exclusively, and use her to commute doing around 8k a year, and so far I've had no problems with pinking, or snapping/popping valves. She's been run with this setup for 3 years now.

Post by **Cam** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 11:51 am

Yes, the fuel pellets will help and will be better than running without any protection at all, but they do seem to be frowned upon by quite a lot of people, including the testing authorities.

But, like Gareth says, he has had no problems. On the same line of thought, I ran my mini exclusively on LRP (Lead Replacement Petrol) with absolutely no problems, but that has got a really bad reputation for causing VSR (Valve Seat Recession).

The question is: How long does it take before the supposed 'bad' products show signs of damage?? - and is there really that much difference in practical terms between the 'good' and 'bad' products?

I guess only time will tell.

Post by **lucamarzana** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 4:23 pm

Well, sure, only time will tell about pellets or what else.
But, in the meantime, I will have to do about 1500 km (in few days) with my Morris so........I would like to arrive at home! The guy which sold me the car says that pellets are ok, and, since I did not hear talking of pellets in Italy I thought it was a kind of new product. But I have red lots of things which are against. I wonder if I better take even a bottle of additive with me....boh......

Post by **Robins** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 6:26 pm

I had pellets in my traveller, before restoration, and now put an unleaded head on instead. The old head was not showing any signs of wear so the pellets obviously did there job. They had been in the tank about 4 years or so I think. But not doing high miles like Gareth I wouldn't like to say if they would have kept on doing there job of looking after my engine. What I will say there was a definate pickup in the power on changing to unleaded fuel and it seemed to run much smoother. Each to their own I think. That Castrol valve master fluid is damn good stuff, I would rather use that instead of pellets.

Post by **Innovator** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 8:16 pm

The pellets will certainly do no harm being in the tank.

My opinion based on no experiments or personal experience is that the pellets are a load of crap.

John

Post by **Daddsie** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 11:10 pm

Thanks for this thread, 3 local garages have all stopped in the last fortnight stocking LRP so additives is the way forward and Valvemaster is the favorite, mixing it with Shell Optimax 2000 should make my Moggies snarl!

Post by **Cam** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 11:19 pm

should make my Moggies snarl!

Yep, it should do, but it's a smooth kind of snarl............

Post by **rayofleamington** » Fri Apr 18, 2003 3:01 pm

pellets ##'#''#
Look closeley at the packet - you will not find any of them have any positive test results backed by government bodies, or approved by a nationally registered test house.
Therefore don't waste your money they are a con. if they actually worked, they would have proven it the proper way- there's no getting around it.

Unleaded heads are not much different from the original ones! The difference is just that the valve seat is a harder material.
Therefore under hard driving conditions (continued high revs and high throttle) a soft valve seat will start to weld to the valve, and minute particles get pulled off which leads to the seat being damaged, and over time the whole seat gets eroded.

If you drive softly, you might never damage a soft valve seat regarless.
If you drive hard over a long time (many tens of thousands of miles) you WILL damage a soft valve seat unless you use leaded petrol or a good petrol additive.
Even with hard seats or a good petrol addititive you can still damage a valve / valve seat if it gets hot enough to break down the harder material - but it's pretty unlikely.

Post by **lucamarzana** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 7:42 pm

I guess, even if I have pellets in my tank, should better use even a liquid additive..........

Post by **an_avenger** » Sun Apr 27, 2003 9:05 pm

I dunno about that lucarnarzana. I don't know the chemical composition of these pellets, however it must be said that, similary using two liquid additives could infact cause problems i.e cancelling out the benefits of just using one additive. The use of BOTH pellets and a liquid additive could do the same, and cancel out the wear-resistant properties it is meant to have. I read somewhere that using two additives i.e. castrol and redex together can bring about such negative benefit - one contains potassium and the other sodium and tests found that if both additives are mixed it can reduce its anti-wear effect. So always use one additive and STICK TO IT!

Lee & 'Pidge' (PDG 457G)

Post by **rayofleamington** » Mon Apr 28, 2003 12:59 am

tin pellets sitting in the tank are not going to cause a major problem..
But yes, you shouldn't mix your liquid additives.

But what does someone do if they want to change from the Redex one to one like Castrol's that passed the FBHVC tests?

Post by **lucamarzana** » Mon Apr 28, 2003 5:59 am

Ehi, thanks for all these replies. I got a better idea now even if pellets where already put in my minor's tank so......
Anyway, I noticed an interesting thing during my trip from England to Italy. I did find some gas stations which still sell "old" gas (both in England and Germany if I am not wrong). I thought that it was not possible to purchase it in all Europe, instead.......In Italy you don't find it anymore.
Strange.........

Post by **Cam** » Mon Apr 28, 2003 11:41 am

But what does someone do if they want to change from the Redex one to one like Castrol's that passed the FBHVC tests?

Just run out of petrol (completely) and then tank up using the new additive.

Post by **rayofleamington** » Mon Apr 28, 2003 8:21 pm

hi Luca,
Some small petrol stations in England were selling LRP (lead replacement petrol), but they sold it from a pump which still has the leaded 4* label.
That was illegal, but they did it anyway.

I'm not sure if there are any of those left, but yes there are a few petrol stations that are allowed to sell real leaded petrol.

Post by **an_avenger** » Mon Apr 28, 2003 11:25 pm

I know that J Sainsbury, Hedge End, Southampton still sells the proper 4 **** stuff. At 99p a litre my car only gets that as a christmas prezzy. But any local people around Southampton should consider filling up with it cause you do notice the difference immediately!

Post by **Gareth** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 9:18 am

I heard talk of Sainsbury's withdrawing their supplies of FourStar from their outlets in the south... I can't comment on it, because we don't get it at Sainsbugs up here. I'd be interested to find out, though.

Post by **Cam** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 10:42 am

For leaded petrol suppliers in the UK, use:

http://www.leadedpetrol.co.uk/list.htm

type in your postcode or click on your area and it will list local stations that supply it. It is a bit expensive though, as an_avenger points out.

Post by **lowedb** » Tue Jul 22, 2003 1:32 pm

If I remember my school chemistry, properly (and its a long time ago)......
The pellets are supposed to be 'fuel catalysts' ie they modify the way that the chemical reaction (in this case burning) takes place. Catalysts don't actually take part in the reaction, and therfore aren't used up. Hence they sit in the tank forever. But if they don't get used, up, then they sit in the tank. If they stay in the tank, how can they have any effect on the combustion which takes place in the engine. They would have to be dissolved in the fuel and taken to the carb and the cylinder, which would mean they got used up (spot any circular arguments yet?).
Alternatives could be they are a catalyst for a reaction in the tank, but if so what is the fuel reacting with?
Even more bizzare (in my opinion) is how something magnetic strapped to the outside of a fuel line could have any effect on the combustion process in the cyclinder, let alone prevent valve seat recession!
If something seems too good to be true, it probably is.