For an mot pass,. patches to just about anywhere on the underside need to be seam welded all round the patch,tack welds will fail,thats why SOME restorers ,tack and then fill the gaps with anything that hides the work. The only time you can get away with tacks or spot welds is where you replace the whole panel,ie a complete chassis leg,since they were only spot welded from new. I would take it to a reputable mot station before replaceing the underseal and let them see the work,if they are happy with it,take it back to them for the next mot,or voluntary one if exempt.
Remind us where the previous work was done ?? Did you say Charles Wares??? But if they only did the chassis legs, then actually they don't look too bad although the welding is a bit messy. The rusty hole in the front X member definitely needs to be investigated and repaired - properly, and the middle X member has broken up and has started to work it's way up through the floor - so that too definitely needs a proper repair before the car goes anywhere. This is definitely the worst part you have shown us in the pictures. I rather think the rear spring front mount plate should have rather more than these few blobs of weld !
Um! Didn't think middle cross member was that bad although has had welding around floor. Wares did the sills not sure who did the chassis. I will take to garage to have proper look. Wares wanted £600+ for the middle x member.
Rather wish I hadn't started this but I guess in some ways better to know than wait for something catastrophic to happen. I am hoping this is all salvageable with some care and attention. Rather step learning curve
Nearside chassis leg appears to be holed near the tie rod and next to the front cross member. I'd be looking to replace as soon as possible. The centre cross member has had it, too - you have to remember that in any I shaped beam all the work is done by the top and bottom flanges, the web between really just holds the flanges apart!
To be fair to the rear spring hanger, the hanger on a plate repair panels only have the hanger attached with similarly placed, albeit neater, short runs of weld.
I empathise with your situation - five years ago I thought I had a solid if tatty traveller. I've now replaced every chassis member and floor panel!
My floors been in since 1954 hasn't been welded and doesn't flex some.of that welding is none too brilliant I have a deep mistrust and hatred of underseal its a bodge cover. On the subject of the aforementioned specialist another local car was done by them recently at a stupid cost ( you could have quite easily bought two exceptionally nice minors for the same price ) and frankly not a good job was done.
So middle cross member first then! Bit more work than I was after, but guess thats the way of things.
I thought I had done everything right. Checked previous owners and history file, with work from a supposed reputable specialist. Went over usual rot areas with magnet checking for metal. lifted carpets looking for rust and ripples - none.
I am happy with mechanics but body work is not my skill set, guess will be sharp learning curve
Cannot say how very disappointed I am in Wares. I recently went up there to get frame injected and for them to have a look around, none of this was mentioned and it was their work, done back in 2006. I will try a minor specialist in Chagford devon, his website looks pretty good for welding.
I do my own welding its the only way I can satisfy myself that its been done to my standards I was incredibly lucky and picked up a working spot welded in the local scrapyard for a fiver I say working it needed £3 worth of micro switch replacing. I was shocked when new acquaintance turned up in a car that had had £10000 spent on it to find the engine bay had been undersealed ! For that kind of money id be expecting a shell I could eat my dinner of the underside of.
You can probably get away with a repair section for that middle X member - depends what the other side looks like... And the repair section I received was not well made - I could have made a better one myself in about 30 minutes. I did reinforce it with extra weld runs before fitting - but it's not a great job I will admit - but I was in a hurry. Fitting a whole new X member is a pretty daunting job, but obviously is a much better result. Has someone perhaps actually tried to jack up the car on that side - using the jacking point ?? Remove them both to avoid the temptation!!
Anyone got any idea where I can get a book to show me how to remove the different panels and what welds to use in certain areas for a Minor. I have limited welding skills (from about 30 years ago) so will need a bit of practice, but really need that learnt knowledge to sort out the removing and then welding of new panels.
Tricky one that if you're lucky you may have a local college that does some sort if evening course its very dependent on what type of welding you want to do mig is obviously the most popular and probably the easiest I'm currently teaching myself tig which gives a much better finish but is less forgiving. Panel removal I've always thought is more a matter of personal choice and what your actually trying to achieve.
I mainly use an angle grinder, but it takes some practice to use safely and without butchering the bits you want to keep. Some people on here mock the use of Dremel tools, but the SpeedClic cutting disks on a flexible shaft are good in tight corners (and a lot cheaper on the internet than B&Q). Always, always wear goggles - I've got a loyalty card at A & E. Make sure you cover any glass before grinding, I ruined my windscreen by not realising this.
A Black & Decker Power file is pretty much essential for tidying up cuts and grinding welds,and again eye and breathing protection is vital. I use spot weld cutters (the toothed tip type) a lot as well.
For removal of that center x member your best bet would likely be to drill the spot welds from the inside of the car. You will then have the factory number of spot welds that you can plug weld with a MIG to secure it in place. However and I mean this in the nicest possible way, MIG is not the point and squirt the guys in the local boozer will tell you and Plug welding properly requires some skill and effort. If you do not know how to set up your machine and how a good and bad weld looks you will end up with a vehicle waiting to fall apart.
trabant wrote:One afterthought to that if you do eventually buy a mig don't get a gasless one.
no buy a gas/gasless you can/t use a gas mig outside in anything like a wind,it blows the gas off the weld,so get a dual one so you have the best of both worlds. It also is invaluable when you run out of gas at a week end in the middle of a job.
robandsophie wrote:Anyone got any idea where I can get a book to show me how to remove the different panels and what welds to use in certain areas for a Minor. I have limited welding skills (from about 30 years ago) so will need a bit of practice, but really need that learnt knowledge to sort out the removing and then welding of new panels.
The Lindsay Porter manual is quite good, the only thing that lets it down are the b+w photos which can be difficult to see properly as they are quite dark. Other than that the text offers a good description.
If you have never restored a minor before the book is a good starting point. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Morris-Restorat ... 1859606962
Richard
Opinions are like people,everyone can be different.
The Lindsey Porter book is ok, but a little biased towards the methods used in a "professional" workshop. Some of the threads on here have been more useful to me - search for NeilMG's traveller thread, or Taupe's, which are both excellent (as are many others).
The MIG gas is VERY expensive - I found my gasless welds were actually better - and much less expensive in materials. So don't knock the gasless -it works.
Thanks Guy's, lot to think about. My plan is to take to a local chap (with good rep) to look at and do whats immediately required.
Will keep you posted how the restoration goes. No doubt will be asking for further advice in near future.
cheers
Rob
Gasless by its very nature creates a poorer quality weld I think we can say that's a given fact it creates a lot more spatter and needs a lot more tidying up. A gas / gasless MIG is just a gassed one in general it's only the much cheaper welders that are " gasless" probably better advice would be not to buy a Clarke one.
,tack and then fill the gaps with anything that hides the work. The only time you can get away with tacks or spot welds is where you replace the whole panel,ie a complete chassis leg,since they were only spot welded from new. I would take it to a reputable mot station before replaceing the underseal and let them see the work,if they are happy with it,take it back to them for the next mot,or voluntary one if exempt.
