play in the steering column....crash

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julie4morris
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play in the steering column....crash

Post by julie4morris »

A year into owning my moggy I started to notice on a few occasions (normally going round a sharp bend) the horn would sound which was somewhat alarming, but I looked into it and could see no problem. I did then take a closer look and worked out as to how the connection in the steering column for the horn works. I then made a slight adjustment to the connection that is on the steering column and that seemed to curate it.
However while I was away in Canada and my dad took the car out for a drive he encountered the same thing happening and said that there seem to be play in the steering column (movement in and out of the shaft. When I came back I adjusted up the tube that the steering column runs through and is attached to the underside of the dash. This took up the slack in the steering column and cured the horn problem however I was still in slight ignorance as to what the problem really was.

well unfortunately this all came to a head over the weekend when I was driving along at night going over a bridge about half an hour away from home when the steering column become somewhat dis-attached from the car. Suffice to say it left me in a somewhat compromised position doing 40 mph over the brow of the bridge with no steering. The car then veered towards the left hand side with me furiously trying to steer to the right and not quite understanding what was going on. I then stamped on the brakes hit the curb on the left-hand side which then shot me over to the right hand side and the oncoming lane where I come to a halt only just gracing the driver’s side front wing on the barrier.
My passenger and I got out of the car and luckily there was not much traffic. A young lad who i will be forever thankful to turn round, came back to see everything was okay and parked his car up in front of mine with his hazard lights on. I pretty much immediately worked out what the problem was and somewhat shaken up put the steering column back over the splined shaft of the steering rack, then gingerly drove off the bridge and into a lay-by.

I waited for backup and with a few tools it took only five minutes to sort out the issue and I then drove back home with my pride somewhat damaged.

I took the steering column back off again yesterday to realign it so the steering wheel is in the correct position when the wheels are straight. But I'm having trouble with how the shaft sits on the splined shaft of the steering rack. I am unsure as to how far the steering column shaft should sit over the shaft of the steering rack. I understand that there is a recess on the shaft of the steering rack and I want to know if the bolt that goes through the steering column should sit in line with that recess? I have put it back on so that the bolt lines up with/goes through recess and tightened it up. Yet there still seems to be movement when I pull and push on the steering wheel.
so what is going on????[frame]Image[/frame]
les
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Re: play in the steering column....crash

Post by les »

You have assembled correctly if the column is pushed over the splines enough so as the groove in the column lines up to enable the bolt to pass through and is then tightened. Can't explain the up/down movement, hopefully it's not excessive.

Trickydicky
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Re: play in the steering column....crash

Post by Trickydicky »

As Les states, the pinch bolt sits in the groove of the gear in the rack, here is a link with details of the assembly, http://www.moss-europe.co.uk/shop-by-mo ... racks.html
The only thing the up and down movement can be is the brass damper pad and/or the shoulders of the pinion being worn, allowing the pinion to move up and down.
It may be time for a replacement rack.
Richard

Opinions are like people,everyone can be different.
myoldjalopy
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Re: play in the steering column....crash

Post by myoldjalopy »

Is the movement the whole steering column moving up and down with the wheel, or is it just the steering wheel? If the latter, the big nut that holds the steering wheel on may need tightening?
panky
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Re: play in the steering column....crash

Post by panky »

Crikey that was a close call, so glad you're OK. I'm amazed at how calm you are about it although I suspect there were a few extra items of underwear in the wash this morning :o
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julie4morris
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Re: play in the steering column....crash

Post by julie4morris »

It has been moving up and down as much as nearly half an inch. Maybe it's just that the bolt is not quite the right size and not taking up enough of the recess? Yes it's the whole column moving up and down. Many thanks; was a bit of a close call and there's quite a few words said at the time that it's probably best not posted on here. I'm just glad that there was very minimal damage to my moggy.
philthehill
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Re: play in the steering column....crash

Post by philthehill »

If you have the correct bolt (Pt No: AJD6111Z or BH604111 (MOSS)) for clamping the column to the rack pinion the only other thing that can have gone wrong is that the bearing pinion tail (ACA5037 (MOSS)) has come loose which will allow the steering pinion (Pt No: ACA6027 (MOSS)) to move up and down.
Movement of the pinion is regulated by shims (Pt No: ACA5259/5260/5320 (MOSS)) fitted between the bearing pinion tail and the rack body.
Any thrust on the pinion is taken by the top thrust (Pt No: ACA5257 (MOSS)) and bottom thrust washer (Pt No: ACA5258 (MOSS)).
To recap - check the security of screws bearing pinion tail to rack housing (Pt No: AJD6155Z (MOSS)).
If they are secure I am afraid it means a rack rebuild or obtaining a replacement rack.
It is not unknown for the bearing pinion tail to come loose from the rack body and give the symptoms you describe.
All the parts can be identified from the link given above.
Phil

bmcecosse
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Re: play in the steering column....crash

Post by bmcecosse »

Crikey - that was a 'near miss' - but if the column came off the splines - and the bolt was in place (?) - then it must be the wrong/too small bolt - or very serious wear. I would order a new bolt/nut and not drive the car until it's fitted and the movement has hopefully gone....
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SteveClem
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Re: play in the steering column....crash

Post by SteveClem »

When did it have its last mot?
taupe
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Re: play in the steering column....crash

Post by taupe »

The correct High Tensile (HT) bolt must be used in this location..an ordinary mild steel bolt is no good.

Taupe
bmcecosse
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Re: play in the steering column....crash

Post by bmcecosse »

Absolutely - and it must be a good tight fit - and clamped up good and tight! You were extremely lucky with that accident - you could have ploughed into the front of an 18 wheeler - or a line of school kids......... :o
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myoldjalopy
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Re: play in the steering column....crash

Post by myoldjalopy »

Or another Morris! :-?
Mark Wilson
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Re: play in the steering column....crash

Post by Mark Wilson »

SteveClem wrote:When did it have its last mot?
I've driven mine less than 100 miles since I bought it with a fresh MOT. Yet when I came to remove the steering column I found the pinch bolt only finger tight....... Scary.

Mark
julie4morris
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Re: play in the steering column....crash

Post by julie4morris »

there seems to be no play in the steering pinion as I gave her a good wiggle with no movement.[frame]Image[/frame]However as you can see in the picture, the bolt has been loose for some time and through wear and tear the splines have cut a grove in the bolt. I then think this has allowing the steering column to simply be pulled off. I source another 1/4 inch bolt from a guy down the road and that cured everything and after quite a bit of time I managed to realign the steering wheel.
As for the MOT that was carried out on 19 December 2015, I'm slightly wary of it as and I quote " anti-roll bar linkage has slight play in a pin/bush nearside rear".I did try to explain to the gentleman that there is no anti-roll bar but I just left it at that.
les
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Re: play in the steering column....crash

Post by les »

Not sure of the bolt spec but might be worth checking the guy down the road gave you the right one.

julie4morris
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Re: play in the steering column....crash

Post by julie4morris »

I looked on line with part numbers Phil put up and found it's a 1/4" UNF bolt with a 1/2" plain shank. will be fine till i get a High Tensile one off the net.
philthehill
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Re: play in the steering column....crash

Post by philthehill »

Whilst a new bolt with nut is an improvement you may find that the wear has enlarged the hole in the column.
You may find that the problem of the bolt becoming loose in the column reoccurs.
To overcome you may have to use a fitted bolt to take up the wear.
I had the same problem on my motorcycle kick start pinch bolt and had to make up a fitted bolt to suit.
Whilst the UNF or BSF bolt is 1/4" x 1 5/8" you may only be able to get 1/4" x 1 3/4" bolts which are suitable.
I personally would fit a 1/4" x 1 5/8" (min) high tensile (12.9 BS2470) cap headed screw with self locking nut.
Here is a example of what may be used to replace the standard bolt but you will have to shorten to suit.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UNF-10-32-1-4 ... BA5KZDWdyw
Whilst the min pack is 10 you pay no postage and the package overall is cheap.
Below is a standard 1/4" BSF steering bolt/spring washer and nut plus a 1/4" x 2" high tensile cap headed bolt shortened to 1 11/16" with two flat washers and a nylock nut and fitted to my Minor
Phil[frame]Image[/frame]

bmcecosse
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Re: play in the steering column....crash

Post by bmcecosse »

And if it has been loose for a while - the splines on the rack and the column may have taken a beating..
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philthehill
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Re: play in the steering column....crash

Post by philthehill »

The saving grace is that the male spines of the rack pinion (Pt No: ACA6027 (R/H/D)(MOSS) are harder than the female splines of the steering column.
Therefore if there is wear in the female splines it is easier to replace the column than it is the rack.
Phil

bmcecosse
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Re: play in the steering column....crash

Post by bmcecosse »

Indeed - but they should be checked....
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