Engine overhaul first time - need support

[Minor-Bramsche]

Hi

yesterday I drove 600 km and got me a 1100 engine fron the netherlands. It was only £ 75 I think it was a bargain.

I´m planing to do my first engine working - Motor mounting learning workshop d i y s never done this before. I need your support please!

Now I´m looking where I´m standing: got of the head - looks ok to me, no damage at the valves and head (tomorrow he comes in the dishwasher - when my wife is out for working), no damage at the top of the pistons, totally easy to turn,no bad sounds, little corosion at the cylindrical walls. I can see it but I can not feels it with my fingernails.

Tomorrow I will get of the sump and have a look to the things there

What is your impression of the Motor nd head.
What tells the number of the head?
What pistons are currently mounted?
What the symbols mean on the piston?
What tells me the engine number?

for today - its finished.

CHeers

Dirk[frame][/frame][frame][/frame][frame][/frame]

[gtt1951]

Dirk,
That engine looks very good already - don't put the head in the dishwasher, you'll never be forgiven (and it isn't needed).
I see you have the cast rockers - these are very good, and are worth a bit of money on their own.
Regards, George.

[philthehill]

The 2A629 cylinder head is not the original cylinder head for the 1098cc Austin/Morris engine which should be 12G202
The 2A629 cylinder head was fitted to the 803cc, 850cc & 948cc engines.
It has smaller inlet valves 1 1/16" against the 1 5/32" of the 12G202.
The combustion chamber volume is 24.5cc against the 26.1cc of the 12G202.
It has small round intake ports against the square intake ports of the 12G202.
The 2A629 cylinder head has inferior porting and combustion chamber design to the 12G202.
The rockers are good so long as the tips of the rockers are not pocketed through wear.

The number 3 refers to the grade of piston relative to the bore size - not all bores are the same and pistons were selected to fit the bore. You can have grade 1, 2 and 3 pistons in the same engine.
FRONT means that the piston has to be fitted with FRONT towards the front of the engine
The other numbers are manufactures references.
MOWOG......................,Morris / Wolseley / Garages (the G short for Morris Garages or MG)

Those bores should clean up with a glaze buster.

The engine number is as follows:
10.............................1098cc
M..............................Morris
A..............................Variation in engine type.
H..............................High Compression
244687.......................Actual engine number.

[bmcecosse]

As above - it's not a 1098 cylinder head - and will be losing a lot of power. Plan to use the head from your 'old' engine.

[James k]

Good luck with the rebuild! I fully rebuilt mine a few months ago and I also had no experience in doing so. It was good fun though, a great learning experience and completely worth it

[Declan_Burns]

Dirk,
Engine looks good and the price was OK. I have a spare 12G202 head here in D'dorf if you need it or just use the old head from your engine. You could also go a step further and fit a 12G940 but requires a different carb and additional work.

Regards
Declan

[Minor-Bramsche]

Second day ... thanks for the important answers.
Too bad that the head does not fit. But better now than later wondering!

Declan I think it may be a good way to take your head. I would like to let the old and worn engine together and maybe get ready later. I like to use the standart parts for the engine. Everything else means more time and more money

it was relatively easy job to disassemble the engine in its individual parts. I am concerned, if I ever get this whole pieces back together. Here are the pictures of the things I´ve found. How they look? but I do not really know. the bearing shells must be replaced, the cylinder - is honing enough? There was some water inside the block mixed with oil. Maybe its not worth the money for alll the new parts I have to buy, the honing and grinding in the engines company, an another head with parts?

For today it´s done - I am very curious about your opinion.

Cheers

Dirk

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[philthehill]

Looking at the engine from a distance - these are my thoughts:-

Crankshaft looks OK but the main bearings and big ends need replacing. Replace thrust bearings whilst the crankshaft is out.

The camshaft and cam followers will clean up - use a fine non scratch nylon pan scrub.

The cylinder bores will clean up with a glaze buster or hone.
Using one of these with an electric drill will clean those bores up and save you money by doing the job yourself.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-CAR-ENGIN ... xy-NVSHIhZ

Overall there does not look to be anything serious to worry about.

Phil

[bmcecosse]

I agree - the big end shells in fact look very very good (may well have been renewed fairly recently) - the main bearing shells have worn through to the phosphor bronze - but the shaft looks ok. Just new shells I think - and a new oil pump. And check for sure that the plate and spring are present inside the oil filter can. The bores may take a bit of work to clear off the surface rust - but I too think they will be fine. Consider a new set of rings. And at least a new timing chain - or go Duplex as has been discussed ad nauseum recently... I would ask the seller for some money back since it's not the right head - it does 'fit' and it could be (and probably has been) used - but will be down on power. It's a very old 948 (or maybe even 803) head with the little clips on the valve cotters!

[Minor-Bramsche]

Thanks for your response - you bring the light into my thoughts! I did not know that I can even make the honing! I have never seen such a spacy thing. Looks like Captain Kirk's antennas. thats nice.and if I get the surfaces clean themselves, it is not necessary to let this grind by a company.

That sounds that I can do it - great.

Thanks and good night

[POMMReg]

Engine block dates to 2/67ish, if that helps(?).

[Minor-Bramsche]

Engine honing tool ordered - Should arrive on Tuesday! Now I go to the garage making inventory and the order list for spare parts!

[biomed32uk]

That's interesting, can you date engine block from the engine number ?.

[Declan_Burns]

Dirk,
I am not convinced that you will eliminate the scoring without having the block rebored but you have ordered the hone so try it out. Looking at the photos again some of the scoring looks quite deep in places. Do you have access to a bore gauge?

Regards
Declan

[philthehill]

When you use the cylinder hone keep it well lubricated with a 50/50 mixture of engine oil and kerosene.
Go fully up and fully down the bore when honing.
Whilst I do appreciate Declan's concerns I do think that you will be pleasantly surprised as to how well those bores will clean up.
Phil

[bmcecosse]

A few tiny scores are not too bad - for the intended use of this engine. The cost of rebore and new pistons is not inconsiderable....so I think it will be worthwhile to just hone it. Keep the hone moving up and down all the time - don't hold it in one place. And I suggest you do a little bit at a time in each bore - then move on to the next one - round and round.

[Minor-Bramsche]

First of all: it was a bad afternoon

I spent the afternoon in the garage, to inspect the engine now exactly.

Again I had the support of a friend. He is an engineer for mechanical engineering. And then he said nothing for a long time. Sorry!

In short: very bad! The overhaul has died.

He believers that the damages can not be eliminated by honing. Drilling, honing, grinding block plan.
Therefor new pistons, rings, all bearing shells
replace tappets, replace pushrods
Camshaft damaged by rust on the cams - replacing!
Camshaft - new bushings
grinding and nitriding crankshaft
All seals, Locktab set, head gasket copper,
Costs here in Germany so far: roughly 2.000 EURO

Add to that: are missing - a fitting cylinder head completely and flywheel. And the things I´ve forgotten to wirte down!!


Therefore, it is much cheaper and easier for me, I now buy a complete engine in UK!
And no work and driving around. Please Give me to beg your experience (if any):

I have three sources and the prices are all around £ 700 plus VAT - which are the top: Charles Ware, Bull Motof or Ebay is always a provider (called: enginecentreltd but only 80% positive feedback)

Bye
Dirk

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[bmcecosse]

I don't believe it's that bad - you are looking for a 'touring' engine - not a racer! You definitely don't need 'new pushrods' - and the crank looks fine - and can't be 'nitrided' anyway... It's not the right steel for that. So take what he said with a large 'pinch of salt' as we say here. Looks like he has been 'showing off' how clever he is - not.... The flywheel and backplate from your old engine will swap straight over in minutes - as will the cylinder head. I would get busy with the hone - it won't be perfect - but with new rings it will be good enough for a regular engine. And new bearing shells and an oil pump will see the crank ok too. Camshaft - I think looks not too bad and can probably be saved with light polishing with crocus paper. New cam followers are certainly sensible...No need for new cam bearings. Don't give up on it!

[philthehill]

I have to agree with bmc.
You should not give up on the engine.
Clean those bores with the hone and see what they clean up like before doing anything.
What I see from your pictures so far is more staining on the camshaft and cam followers than rust.
A better picture of the camshaft lobes and the bottom of the cam followers would be appreciated.
Even if the cam followers have to be replaced they are only £1.95 x 8 plus VAT for a set Pt No: 10M160 - ESM.
Unless there are chunks out of the pistons on the other side from those pictured they look perfectly serviceable to me and only require new rings to be fitted.
With all of the parts displayed I cannot see anything that could not be re-used in an engine rebuild.
How out of round were the cylinder walls?
You cannot nitride a Morris Minor crankshaft as it is not made from EN40 material. At most you can tuftride a Minor crankshaft but it is not required. Whatever made the person providing the engine rebuild details think that a non EN40 crankshaft could be nitrited.
Use all the deficient parts from your existing engine.
Once you have the base engine together changing the engine with all the deficient parts should not take more than a weekend or two days.
I would advise you get a second opinion.
Phil

[bmcecosse]

Apply the hone - then come back with more pictures.