car died whilst warm now won't restart

[dudload]

hello all,

had something fairly strange happen this evening - came back to London from Stansted on the M11 and all was fine, sitting at 65mph the whole way. however, when we got into central london (and very luckily in a quiet backstreet close to our house) the car just lost power and wouldn't restart.

fuel tank was half full, oil level is between max and min (had it at max before heading off, so had burned half in 60-70miles), battery seems absolutely fine and i can smell fuel when friend tries to start (so don't think its a fuel pump issue). however, when starting it just doesn't seem to ever get close to starting (no chugging and dying or anything).

I also left it to cool outside the house for a while to cool down and when cold still couldn't get started.

i don't have a starter handle - i do need to buy one - but fairly sure it hasn't seized as was in second when it lost power and I didn't jolt to a halt.

any ideas from everyone - have homestart cover, but would like to see if there's anything i can try before using up one of my lives

[myoldjalopy]

I have had sudden loss of power like this and it was failure of the rotor arm. Obviously check all leads from coil to distributor cap and cap to spark plugs are properly connected. Also check there is a spark from the coil to the distributor cap by placing the disributor cap end end of the king lead next the engine body, turn the engine and see if it sparks. If it does, take the cap off the coil and hold the end of the lead next the rotor arm. If it does spark to the rotor, then the rotor is faulty. If it is not the rotor, it may be distributor cap has cracked or some other fault in the points set up.

[The vast minority]

Could well have run out of petrol, check the pump is delivering fuel to the carb. Lots of petrol in the tank won't light the fire if the pump has stopped working, which they do!!!!

Al

[bmcecosse]

Or if the pump is hammering away 19 to the dozen - then you really have run out of fuel.

[dudload]

thanks once again all.

so the recovery guy had a look and tested the plugs - apparently there's no electricity coming through to any of the spark plugs, so he diagnosed either a failed dizzy or coil. now, he couldn't tell me which one or what part as he said he's never serviced or worked on a car that old before!!

any sage advice, or should i buy a dizzy cap, rotor arm, leads and coil just to be safe (to have as backups) and replace one by one until it works?

myoldjalopy - looks like you were right!! just on the king lead - i'm worried about getting fried whilst working with the live engine. i take it i should place the king lead next to the engine, stand back and have a friend turn the ignition over??

sorry for stupid questions, but feel like i'm understanding how everything works more day by day!

[andypocock]

My money is on the coil. Have you got a spare laying around?

[bmcecosse]

But It's NEVER the coil!!! And any coil you are likely to buy will probably have been made in a tin shack in a far-away place.... or is that what you have right now ?

[dudload]

no spares lying around unfortunately - will probably buy spares of the whole lot at the moment and replace starting from the dizzy cap and leads.

bmecosse - the coil looks pretty old on the car, so probably isn't one of the newer ones made far away.

any tips on how to check which one it could be? will try myoldjalopy's suggestion, but a bit worried about getting fried by 10000v!

[andypocock]

But It's NEVER the coil!!! And any coil you are likely to buy will probably have been made in a tin shack in a far-away place.... or is that what you have right now ?

But it often is the coil and condenser nowadays. Probably because they are made in some fair away land.

I'd have hoped the RAC/AA man would have managed a spark otherwise. Even if he couldn't distribute it.

[bmcecosse]

Condensers - especially 'new' ones - yes. And 'new' coils - yes. But old coils go on for EVER! You need to track (pun) it down - check for good connections at the coil - then check for a spark at the king lead when you earth the white/black wire. Wear marigolds if worried......

[myoldjalopy]

OK....recovery guy says no spark at plugs. So, if no spark going out OUT of dizzy, is there spark going IN to dizzy?
So check king HT lead. You may be able to place the end on the engine block or some other metal, as long as the end is about a quarter an inch away from the engine block/earthing point. Or use insulated pliers to hold it, wear marigolds and stand on a rubber mat in wellies....then you can't go wrong! Good to have friend to turn engine over, if possible, but can be done on your own - you may have a solenoid button you can press to turn the engine over in the engine bay, near the fuse box. Does it spark when engine turned over?
If spark is going IN to the dizzy but not OUT, my bet is on the rotor arm (which you can test as I suggested above) or a cracked or otherwise worn out dizzy cap. A SUDDEN loss of power like that, without warning, sounds like a SUDDEN component failure, rather than general wear. Rotor arm is a favourite, dizzy cap cracked is another.
If there is no spark from king lead, then we have to think again.........but try the above first.

[andypocock]

Condensers - especially 'new' ones - yes. And 'new' coils - yes. But old coils go on for EVER! You need to track (pun) it down - check for good connections at the coil - then check for a spark at the king lead when you earth the white/black wire. Wear marigolds if worried......

A bit of a generalisation and I can only go on what I find but:

New rotor arms - rubbish
New coils - rubbish
New condensors - utter rubbish. And worse than that they have taken out quite a few old coils as well as new ones.

[kennatt]

you don't need to spin the engine to check the coil........take king lead from dizzy and take cap off,hold lead close to the block with insulated pliers ,make sure the points in the dizzy are closed and with a screw driver flick the points open,if the coil is ok,and the connections to the coil and dizzy are ok you will see a fat spark from the lead to the block.Obviously with ignition ON.to check the dizzy,take cap off and with ignition on,flick the points open and you should see a weak spark across the points,do this and report the result. You will still be alive,even if you get a hit from the system had dozens of shocks from it over the years.I suspect that your trouble is simply points that have closed up,they do,to check take cap off dizzy,and turn engine by putting in top and pushing car back and forwards,watch the points and see if they open each time the tip of the square rotor touches the plastic cam.If not,push the car back and forwards until the tip of the square is touching the cam ,undo the screw holding the ponts,, slightly,dont take if right off,If you don't have feeler gauges,slide something about the thickness of card on a cigarette packet between the points to hold them open ,with the cam still touching the square rotor,then tighten the screw,pull packet out and see if the points are now held slightly open.Report result.

[dudload]

right, thanks for the advice. will try and get home early today to work on the car whilst there's light and report back

[myoldjalopy]

Good luck for tonight then......but remember, re Kennat's advice, that if you DON'T get a spark at the king lead, it doesn't necessarily mean the coil is duff. It could be a problem with the points, condensor, loose wire........
But try the king lead spark test first. If you get a good spark, its not the coil, and chances are its rotor or dizzy cap.
Let us know results and we can advise further......there is a logical way of working through these sort of problems.

[dudload]

FIXED!

tested the coil first and no spark whatsoever, so removed the old one (Delco Remy) and put a new Lucas one on. started first time!

whilst i was at it, i also fitted a new king lead as the old one was ropey and a new red rotor head as the one in there looked a bit worn (if they can get worn!)

many thanks to all - Henry is back on the road.

now to fix the rear wheel oil leak, which needs a garage...

[andypocock]

I'm saying nothing

[bmcecosse]

How 'old' was the non standard Delco coil? And were the other changes made AFTER the engine was found to run on the new 'Lucas' coil ? Be aware - that 'Lucas' coil was made in a far away place....I would have no faith in it. If you re-connect the Delco coil - does the engine again refuse to run?

[liammonty]

Unfortunately, coil failures are all too common (usually with newer replacement ones, but also occasionally with the 50-odd year old originals - I've had one of them fail). Be warned re the Lucas-branded coil - they are rubbish, and mine (which I bought as an emergency get me home measure at the Goodwood revival having just managed to limp there!) lasted only 1 year before leaving me stranded. Carry a spare one. Regarding decent brands of new coils, I have found that the Bosch coils are good quality still. I've two, on different vehicles, and both have lasted well. You can get them from GSF car parts (they are as fitted to aircooled VWs). They are also filled totally with oil unlike many of the cheaper ones which you can hear the oil sloshing around in, suggesting it doesn't cover all the internals and likely leads to overheating and failure.

[myoldjalopy]

Hi Dudload,

Glad the car is running again, but you say 'whilst you were at' fitting the 'Lucas' coil, you also fitted new king lead and rotor (red is good). So, did you fire the car up BEFORE you fitted the other two components, or AFTER?

Cheers,

Pete