Electronic distributor,is it worthwhile?

[Chris Williams]

Evening all,
Despite my 948 moggie running perfectly at the moment,there are some very good deals on an electronic distributor around.Has anyone got this upgrade and is it really worth doing?The dizzy looks period so shouldn't ruin the look of originality!

[bmcecosse]

Many swear by the Powerspark/Accuspark dizzies... But always carry the old dizzy in the car as a spare - just in case.

[Chris Williams]

Thanks for the advice!Yep its the powerspark unit I'm looking at buying.For the price and ease of fitting (so I hear!) They do seem like one of the better engine upgrades.Yes,another part for the 'just in case' box in the boot!

[bmcecosse]

I would normally suggest getting the 45D - as it's a later/improved dizzy - but if you want to keep it looking original then the 25D will be fine.

[Chris Williams]

Yes I'd like to keep it looking original so thanks for the advice on that.Off topic has anyone seen the 4 door convertible project on offer on eBay????Be an interesting project with regards to the strength of the car!

[Hubert]

Simple answer: "YES".

The quality of points has become miserable, and new old stock ist hard to trace.

I had a relatively cheap electronic ignition (working with a hall sensor) installed in my distributor in 2011 and was quite satisfied - until last year. An electronic fault in the ignition caused the coil to overheat sometimes, and then the engine didn't run properly.

I have now got a Dutch 123-ignition http://www.123ignition.nl/ which works miracles. My engine has never run as smooth as now, and choke is only needed for starting and the first half mile. It looks almost like the standard distributor, so I have no problems considering originality.

So I can only recommend the thing, although it is more expensive than most other electronic ignitions. Have a look at the 123 website and consider installing it, it's worth while.

Cheers

Hubert

[Chris Williams]

Thanks Hubert,
Good to hear from someone who has tried the cheaper and higher end options.For the price difference maybe its worth paying a premium for peace of mind.I want to attend the anniversary rally at catton hall which is 106 miles each way for me,wouldn't be much fun having a cheaper option fail on me en route!

[liammonty]

For what it's worth, I wouldn't bother. You won't notice any improvement over a correctly maintained standard set up. Decent quality parts are easily available in the UK (Distributor Doctor) for new, or new-old stock from eBay, auto jumbles etc. If you do go for an electronic set up, I'm with Hubert all the way - go for a decent quality kit or you may well regret it. I've used such a kit (Pertronix, aka Aldon Ignitor).

The fact that many folks who have fitted kits carry points etc at all times in case of a breakdown speaks volumes!

[Chris Williams]

That's the thing liam,I've only owned the car since October but it starts first time every time and runs faultlessly!It's just people who also have a good running car still opt for the conversion. In the spares pile is a new Lucas rotor arm,condenser and points.I'm just looking to do a major service next month and looking over the benefits of an electronic dizzy.

[liammonty]

The main advantage is that you won't have to gap the points when it comes to service time. The disadvantage is that you are doing away with part of the inherent simplicity of the car which means if something goes wrong, you have a fighting chance of fixing it easily. I love the simplicity of the Minor - I've got a modern car for complex electrical breakdowns! Genuinely, if it is running as it should on the conventional set up, it will not run any better on an electronic set up. People that notice a vast difference when they change to an electronic system have I think generally been running with a poorly maintained conventional set up.

I wouldn't rush if I were you - see how you get on with it as it stands if it is running well, and then choose. IT is essential though that if you use conventional points etc., that you get them from a decent source.

[Chris Williams]

Thanks for your advice liam it's much appreciated! I guess its one of them if it ain't broke don't fix it things!

[Trickydicky]

Whilst I agree that a well maintained conventional ignition set up works perfectly well I have to disagree with what you say about there being no difference between the two.
I have just upgraded to the Accuspark module using my existing dizzy, it runs smoother and is less lumpy at lower revs and picks up much faster, you also don't need as much choke when cold. I was using Distributor Doctor parts and it was a well maintained system. I do though keep a set of known working ignition parts in the boot for emergencys.
Reading the instructions for electronic ignition modules it states they should not have an excess of 14v connected to them, personally I think the units that have failed may have done so due to receiving 14v.
The problem is though, as far as I am aware no one has ever tested for this when trying to find the failure reason so we can only blame poor manufacturing for the failure.

[liammonty]

Hi Richard,
We'll just have to disagree on that, but then all engines are different. I've experience of conventional and 'electronic' on my T2 air cooled VW, and it ran no differently. The beauty of that system on the VW was that was that gapping the points is an absolute pain, and as soon as the points gap begins to close up, they run horribly. On the Minor though, the dizzy is so accessible I've never found getting to the distributor a problem.

Ultimately, this is one of those issues that there isn't really a right or wrong answer to, it's just personal preference.

[The vast minority]

Don't bother, there is no benefit over a properly adjusted mechanical ignition system. They don't need the same maintenance but isn't that part of the fun of owning a classic anyway

My car has 51 years of history in the file and that includes 2 x electronic ignition systems during the 80's and 90's, each was fitted by a different owner and in each case there is also an invoice for its subsequent removal and conversion back to proper points ignition after a period of time.

Buy good quality points and condenser and don't waste your money. A nice fat blue spark is a nice fat blue spark regardless of its upstream origin. If it's strong enough and delivered at the right instant it cannot be improved upon, thats a fact.

Al

[Chris Williams]

Clearly this is the subject of a massive difference of opinion! The original system as I say it working perfectly for the time being.Yes Al,all part of the fun of classic car ownership!On this thread there are a couple of stories of failed electronic units,and as its running so well the best option seems to be just the regular routine maintenance with n/o/s parts!

[Hubert]

I have to agree and disagree to some of the opinions. As you can see from my first post, I have experience with three sorts of ignitions in my Moggy. And I agree, there has been no difference at all regarding the power or Maximum speed of the car. However there are differences which I would like to point out.

The standard ignition was ok, but I had to change the points ever so often. After about 500 miles you could see a hole and a peak on the points, and there were single interruptions when accelerating away from corners with low revvs. I have tied several brands of points, and they were all about the same. None of them lasted longer than about 700 miles.

That was the reason why I had an electronic ignition fitted. It was done by a local company which manufactures the ignition in house, and they have an excellent reputation in vintage motorcycle circles. It cost me the equivalent of 60 Pounds including fitting and tuning of the engine, and it worked fine and without any problems for four years. Then the car started to lose power after I had driven a distance of 5 - 10 miles. The engine never stalled, but it would only idle with the gears in neutral. Having waited like this for about 10 minutes everything was back to normal, and I could carry on - for another 10 miles until the problem came back. The reason for this behaviour was hard to trace, as it did not happen all the time. It was up to my garage to find the reason when they connected an oscilloscope to the ignition and got some awkward readings. It came out that one of the parts of the electronic ignition had failed or a solder had come loose, anyway, it caused the coil to overheat, and the spark that was created was not strong enough for running.

The garage suggested three options: 1. Get a replacement electronic part from our local company and "repair" the existing ignition. 2. Get a new electronic ignition from a different manufacturer, e.g. ignitor or 3. Get a 123-ignition. As the garage had made very good experience with the 123 ignition in various cars from a Triumph TR 3 to a Mercedes 280 SL we agreed on the most expensive variant.

As I mentioned before, I have not regretted the expense! The car is still not faster or accelerates more quickly. But the engine has never run as smooth as now. I need the choke only to start the engine,and I can completely push it in after a few hundred yards. Even on a motorway at 65 - 75 mph the car is quiet, and the engine doesn't sound as if it's stressed. For me the most important thing is that it has brought back the reliability which I had been used to for the first years I have had her.

The 123-ignition doesn't have a vacuum advance, it is all done electronically. There are 16 options to set the advance curve, and I have so far only tried eight of them. With each of them the car performed in a slightly different way. At the moment I have an almost identical performance compared to the standard ignition. In spring I am going to try how the next options work. If you are interested to learn how the 123-ignition works, have a look at the Website (link in my first post), it is all well explained in English.

The 123-ignition has cost me about 100 pounds more than a new (cheaper) electronic ignition. This is an expense I have not regretted, in fact I am angry at myself that I didin't go for it when I got the first electronic ignition in 2011.

Cheers
Hubert

[bmcecosse]

The 123 advance 'curves' are very limited - basically just straight lines with slightly different slope ...and no vacuum advance is certainly a retrograde step. I would NOT pay the extra cash for that...the beauty of a new Accuspark/Powerspark dizzy is that you get a complete new dizzy - with new vacuum advance unit -and virtually everyone who has bought one is pleased with it. Carrying the old dizzy in the car is just 'insurance' - and also means you can maybe help a stranded Minor at the roadside ! People who try to save a few pounds by buying 'the module' have run in to problems with incorrect fitting/wrong polarity etc - and of course they don't get the new bearings/new vacuum advance unit. It's your choice of course. If you stick with your existing 'trouble free' dizzy - then I suggest you leave it well alone -and if possible pick up a complete 'known good' spare dizzy to carry in the car. Again - if you have it, you won't need it - if you don't have it - that's when you will splutter to a halt on a dark wet night.....

[Chris Williams]

These are all very valid points being made and it was the powerspark unit I was looking at because the reviews I've read haven't got a bad word to say about them.Many people say it has the quality of not being the 'poor relation'.Clearly there's a lot of food for thought here...

[dalebrignall]

ive got the accuspark system and im very happy with it

[SteveClem]

Well, I'll let the technical experts debate the complexities. Just to say that I tried the accuspark system on one of the cars a few years back. Very pleased with it. Now have it on both Morrises, the Austin and the Beetle. Faultless.