Minor Newbie. Horrible Whirring noise wont start

[leeandoona]

Hi all. Acquired a very very very sorry Minor 1000 1958 2dr a while back and today we've tried starting it for the first time. It's been sat for around 20 years. We've done all the usual stuff, new pints, plugs, leads, oil, fuel, cleaned carb. Initially the starter was turning the engine over nicely but it just wouldn't start. We used a bit of easy start and she spluttered into life for around 10 seconds. I figured I'd got it almost started when all of a sudden instead of it turning the engine, there is just a very loud motor whirring, spinning sound. It's a dry whirring and for as long as I hold onto the starter it will make the noise and the engine isn't being turned over at all. The clutch is likely stuck I know but I'm starting to wonder if I've broken something very expensive. Do you think I've killed the engine or is this just possibly the starter running but not engaging? It's really very loud!

Sorry, new to these cars!

[Brian in Saudi]

Possibly the Bendix gear is sticking. It sounds as if the starter is spinning but the gear is not moving forward to engage with the teeth on the flywheel.

Take off the starter and give the gear a good clean.

With luck, it's an easy fix and nothing serious.

[leeandoona]

Possibly the Bendix gear is sticking. It sounds as if the starter is spinning but the gear is not moving forward to engage with the teeth on the flywheel.

Take off the starter and give the gear a good clean.

With luck, it's an easy fox and nothing serious.

I'll try that Brian, thanks very much for such an amazingly quick reply! It's going to take me a little while before I post back if that worked or not but I'll let you know if it did! I did wonder if the flywheel teeth had broken or worse something more terminal! Hopefully you'll be right though!!

[bmcecosse]

Probably as above - sticking bendix - but could just be flat battery. Is the fuel pump ticking? Since it 'fired' on Easy Start the Ign is ok - but maybe no fuel getting through.

[leeandoona]

Yep, it appears to be the starter. Before I decided to remove it, I cranked it over a few more times and randomly it then fired over, ran (badly) and then conked out. On trying again, horrible noise again, then several more cranks and then out of the blue it then fires over. I'm assuming therefore that the starter is occasionally connecting to the flywheel and then mostly isn't. PHEW! Got a bit worried there!

As I'm stripping the car back to bare shell anyway, I'll be attending to the starter and the rest of the engine anyway. I just wanted to know that the engine was worth saving before I continued and when I heard that noise I got really worried! I can't believe how loud a starter motor is when it's not 'starting' the car!

I did try and double prove this point by using the crank handle and starting the car but I was unable to get it to fire up or even sound like it was turning over using the handle at all, probably down to poor technique I guess. But the good news is, I did have him running a couple of times, albeit for just a few moments (longest was about a minute) before it died so there's hope for the little chap yet!

I'll add some pics of my progress on here in the right place at some time soon!

Cheers again for your swift help!

[Chipper]

Generally, if a starter motor gets stuck, you can either put the vehicle in 2nd gear and rock it backwards and forwards, and/or clout the starter motor body with a club hammer with a few sharp blows.

[bmcecosse]

Just sounds like flat battery to me. Don't understand why it won't keep running once it starts - is the 'choke' control doing anything useful? Why would it not turn on the handle ??

[Brian in Saudi]

... I did try and double prove this point by using the crank handle...

Probably you know this already, but since you say Newbie I'll say it anyway:

Don't wrap your thumb around the handle. That way if it kicks back you won't break a bone.

[TDV102]

Don't wrap your thumb around the handle. That way if it kicks back you won't break a bone.

I was lucky in my youth when I had my original Minor, I got away with just making my thumb a tad more mobile than usual due to a ripped tendon. Only made the mistake once.

[bmcecosse]

Dunno why it suggests I wrote the note about 'thumb' - when it was Brian ......???

[leeandoona]

Yep, thanks for the heads up about the correct use of the crank handle. I'm a newbie to these cars but not to the crank handle which I've used on a previous car a long time ago. Good safety advise none the less! At this stage I'm morel ikely ot put my back out tugging it over. Won't even cough using the handle.

I'm assuming it wont turn over on the handle because it's been sat so very long (20 years+) so it's likely the carb is all gunked up i'd guess, which is also I guess why it wont stay running when it does eventually fire over. I'd imagine it has some dirty fuel lines, old petrol mixed in with the new petrol I put in, filthy carb and possibly it's out of 'tune' too. Maybe there is something else I've missed too though. At this stage, I'm just relieved it's a 'runner' (albeit momentarily) so that I can justify the vast amount of bodywork I'm about to embark on! Stripping it out, bagging and tagging as we speak, although to be fair there's not much worth saving from the interior as it's seats are almost totally rotten through, the gloveboxes were hideous damp sodden cardboard covered in mold (I did find a chocolate bar from the 70s but decided not to try it). The floor (well, where the floor would normally be) has rotted out and the carpets have too. All the window rubber is perished, the dashboard is intact but none of the electrics appear to be working aside from the rear tail lights. The semiphores are snapped, the tyres are perished, the rear boot has rusted through the door, the rear wings have rusted through, the headlining is in tatters and the car smells like a public urinal (a tramp was living in it - its okay, I didn't make him homeless because he upgraded to an old bus apparently). On the plus side however, it is still reasonably solid in a number of key areas around the cross members and such like, so I've assembled a lengthy list of panels from Charles Ware and like I say, I'm dismantling the remainder of what I have so that it can go straight to the body shop for welding. When that's happening I'll start work on the engine which I will take out. I plan to restore it to a very good standard if possible (budget pending) and then use it on a daily basis with a (much) longer term view (after a few years at least) to sell it on and do another one, possibly a woody...

Anyways...waffling on and off topic now.

Thanks again for the advices. I'll try the 2nd gear rocking as I'd like to get it running at least reasonably well before I pull it all apart, just so I can flush the engine through and the cooling system too!

Lee

[bmcecosse]

Charge the battery! If it's whirring - then it's not jammed and won't respond to any 'rocking'. I suggest you compare panel prices with a number of different suppliers (Bull Motif/ESM/MOSS) and look out for Christmas 'offers' from some of these companies which could save a bit of money. Are you sure this car is economically worthwhile ? I sounds pretty far gone -and unless you are going to DIY the repairs - it's going to be very expensive... Budget it all up before buying any parts.

[leeandoona]

Well with regards the Starter Motor It was that causing the problem (see pic) has wound itself undone! I'm guessing it was seized and then the retainer just broke. With regards to the viability of the restoration. The sane answer is no...it's beyond economical repair BUT I've got it and I need to see it through now as I'm a bit of a sadist! Besides, I'm a firm believer that if something could be saved then it should be. Wish me luck...especially with finances![frame][/frame]

[bmcecosse]

Is the Bendix not just sticking? Try cleaning it all - but leave it dry - don't oil it.