non-starting puzzle! help please

[richbaker78]

Hi all,
I have a problem with my morris 1000 (with bog standard 1098 a series).....
Last July drove to a friends house, car ran perfect en route, in fact better than ever I would say, in fact i did say this very thing to my friend as i arrived, which is when it all went wrong.

On getting back into the car 20 minutes after arriving the car refused to start - turning over but not firing: I would say ima competant home mechanic & I went through the usual and established fuel was fine all the way from float, through carb and to the plugs. I also pulled a plug and established there was a spark and yet it would not run??. Being out of ideas and limited in tools I called the breakdown and told them of my situation, so confident they were that they sent a small van with no towing capabilities.....an hour of breakdown man doing the same stuff i had done achieved nothing initially then randomly it fired. It wasnt the happiest engine as it was over revving (prob due to some previous carb messing about) and wouldnt idle at all - so i was told to jump in it quick and drive home - it struggled home with a sight misfire and threatening to stall unless i feathered the throttle all the time. I parked it on the drive and it refused to restart. Disgusted with it I put it in the garage, put a cover on it and focused on my other projects.

Fast forward to today....after nearly a year of mulling over I decided that this couldnt be that hard to solve and went to purchase a whole load of parts despite my knowing the ones on the car were in good nick:

Having notice a slight leak i started on the fuel side and replaced the jet and needle with new. And again established fuel at the plugs.

ON the ignition side i did this in stages so as to establish the source of the problem:
1) Tested for a spark and got nothing so suspected coil or condenser
2) Replaced points and condenser with new - nothing
3) Replaced coil with new - still nothing
4)replaced cap and rotor with new - nothing
Suspected king lead & Continuity tested it but got no read out so substituted with a spare (not new) but still nothing.

Im clutching at straws nowso i did.....
a Compression test - all 4 cylinders show good compression & recharged battery to make sure its turning over at full tilt.
And still nothing....

Im thinking possibly a faulty new coil (although the old one was also quite new)
or a faulty replacement king lead (any way of testing either of these without electrocuting myself?)
I did wonder about sticking an earth lead on the engine to body in case the one underneath has broken (i cant check at the moment due to injuring myself skiing)

So Im all out of ideas now......please contirbute any ideas or things i can double check.

Thanks in advance

RIch

[tomas.geoghegan]

My only guess,is try another Ignition coil.
A Very tricky one considering that i would say youv gone through nearly everything,
Tomas

[tomas.geoghegan]

Hi again Just a thought are you shaw that there is no shorting of the spark in the distributor.
A problem i had along time ago with a few cars .with no spark.
Hope that helps
Tomas

[bmcecosse]

Hahahahahaha - it's NEVER the coil - put the old one back on. It could very well be the 'Low Volts' lead inside the dizzy... and it's about the only part you haven't changed anyway....... Problem now is that you have changed so many parts - and may not have done so correctly (sorry - but it's a fact of life) that it will be difficult to find the problem. This where a complete spare KNOWN GOOD dizzy is very handy...... A complete NEW dizzy from simonbbc or accuspark may well be the best way forward. Not expensive - everything is new. And you can check over and repair your old dizzy at leisure and carry it as a spare.......

[simmitc]

Take s simple volt meter or 12 volt lamp and just make sure that you have low tension to the coil (white lead, take it off the coil and onto the meter / lamp). If OK, then keep the meter/lamp in series with the coil and check that with the points closed you get a circuit and with the points open that there is no circuit.

[autolycus]

Given the odd results you get when you use a digital voltmeter as simmitc suggests and neither side of it is earthed (meter in series, points open), I'd suggest using it as a plain voltmeter at first.

One side of the meter (or of the test lamp) to a good earth: connect the other meter lead to the lead from the coil to the distributor, at the distributor end preferably. Turn the engine over slowly by hand, and check whether the meter reads around 12v when the points are open (or the test lamp is lit) and around 0v when they're closed (or lamp out).

Let us know the outcome.

Kevin

[richbaker78]

Hi all - thanks for the advice....just as an update its still not working!

I have now replaced the new with the original coil and gone through all the replaced parts and I have replaced them correctly! I also removed and rebuilt the distributor - all is well there and I continuity tested the wires inside and cleaned and sorted the bobweights etc no probs but still didnt help!

I still have to test the coils...fingers xd its them!! im really stumped!

Any more ideas welcome.

[tomas.geoghegan]

People do get sarcastic when i say it might be the coil but again i say i had the coil go on me.
Worth a try i think.But yes seems like youv tried everything.
Best of luck
Tomas

[tomas.geoghegan]

People do get sarcastic when i say it might be the coil but again i say i had the coil go on me.
With i must add the same symtoms as me!
Worth a try i think.But yes seems like youv tried everything.
Best of luck
Tomas

[mike.perry]

Check that the wires and insulators on the points are correctly positioned
Check the carbon brush in the top of the distributor cap.
Check that the rotor arm is not still on top of the battery

[bmcecosse]

Well - two coils have been tried - made no odds. It really is 'never' the coil - BUT - it can be the coil connections, and changing the coil can of course remove a bad connection problem. In this case - is there any sign of sparking at the points ? Is there a spark at the king lead coming from the coil ? Fix the king lead end near an earth and flick the points open..... Is the rotor arm new or known good (and the carbon brush checked as mentioned) - and then is there any spark appearing at the plug leads when you crank the engine ?

[tomas.geoghegan]

Point accepted Pardon the pun HE HE HE
But would say that if you have to buy a coil to fix the problem Then it surely is the coil.?
Just wondering Really Bmc!
Thanks Tomas

[bmcecosse]

No - just fix the loose connections! Put a meter on the old coil - how does it read ??

[daveyl]

Try taking the points out and very gently file/sand the contacts with a fine grit emery paper (or something that cleans off the surface layer).
Sometimes there is a layer of lacquer/oil/something! on them and stops them from working.

[whyperion]

Did it get fixed, was it the fuse box contacts?

interesting unsolved one for me. Test lamp remains glowing for a bit more of the engine - I'm turning it on the handle , (dimly) would that suggest condensor is failing (not instantanously discharging?)

[bmcecosse]

Fuses have NOTHING to do with engine running... It's NEVER the fuses -or the coil....

[whyperion]

I'm probably going to change the condenser , car has been stood for 10 years approx. ( nearly pullled the back off a Fiat something or other trying to pull it out the garage - its still in there ). Newish battery and we have a working starter motor, petrol (too much and might be a bit old - the pump(15yrs old) is leaking apparantly at the chambers and motor body union ), no firing. I am not expecting the car to move, but want to get the engine running first, then unseize front brakes ( should be easish ), then the rears - expect much hide hammer hammering to get the drums rotating ).

[stag36587]

I would double check the distributor. I had similar issues with a Vauxhall Nova a few years ago that had myself and the AA chap stumped. Turned out that one of the springs for the distributor weights had broken due to rust and it knocked the timing out.