Beehive spring, rear brakes, necessary ?

[simmitc]

I want one of those tools!

[jagnut66]

I did a quick search on the internet and came up a complete blank, perhaps someone on here knows the correct name for it, which would improve the chances of finding one................... maybe...............
Best wishes,
Mike.

[John Naylor]

My theory is that a good cylinder in a good backplate will slide as required. If there is slack and a poor fit in the backplate the cylinder can turn away from the backplate axis when the brakes are released and cause the shoes to drag. I found my osr not releasing correctly in spite of lubrication and everything else being correct. A few turns of the wheel and it cleared but disconcerting for the MOT man! Yet to fit beehives and recheck!
John

[les]

When ever this topic comes around, I try to think of a reason why one wouldn't fit these springs----or indeed a disadvantage even and so far I'm damned if I can! The effort required, I don't consider a reason.

[jagnut66]

How about a photo of the correct tool?

Reposted with pictures reattached:

Bee hive spring tool 1.JPG (1.13 MiB) Viewed 38597 times

Bee hive spring tool 2.JPG (1.1 MiB) Viewed 38597 times

Bee hive spring tool 3.JPG (1.09 MiB) Viewed 38597 times

Simply push the spring into the slot, then push into place over the tag and whilst compressed turn (which inserts the clip into the tag) then pull off, allowing the spring to expand once more (thus locking it in place) and withdraw the tool.
It still requires a bit of fiddling in practice, mainly getting the clip inserted into the tag (keeping the spring compressed and twisting it at the same time, whilst the spring fights against you can be quite entertaining and may require a few attempts before you are successful but it's still allot easier than pliers, long nosed or otherwise....).
Best wishes,
Mike.
[/quote]

[Chief]

The tool has no movable parts right? It's just a rod with a welded on washer/collar and then a gapped end piece?

Also I see on the brass it says pat. any makers name or parts stamped on it? Might make it easier for others to find.

[geoberni]

The tool has no movable parts right? It's just a rod with a welded on washer/collar and then a gapped end piece?

Also I see on the brass it says pat. any makers name or parts stamped on it? Might make it easier for others to find.

Doesn't even need to be 'special'.
These are a couple of stills from a video I took of working on Basil's rear brakes, changing the springs. I haven't got around to editing it to post it on youtube yet.
Like, I guess, many of us older car owners, I have some old socket sets from the 70s or 80s, which always had lots of small sizes that never got used much.
I got a 1/4 drive screwdriver handle and an appropriate size socket, a quick slot using an angle grinder and voila instant beehive tool.
It's just to push it down and twist it around to hook on...
.

beehive 1.JPG (68.35 KiB) Viewed 38270 times

beehive 2.JPG (52.67 KiB) Viewed 38270 times

[mike1864]

Without a special tool, I have found that each spring comes installed with a form of contrary telepathy.
If you think the fitting will be a doddle, you can kiss goodbye to a frustrating hour of work.
But if experience tells you to allot an hour for the task, they slot in at the first attempt!

[Chief]

It's just to push it down and twist it around to hook on...

That's what I figured, but it's also why I asked about movable parts in-case it wasn't as simple as push and twist. I also figured if that were the case it wouldn't be too hard to make a DIY version (as you did).

[philthehill]

Short nosed pointed pliers (in my case CK 36228 pliers) is all you need to do the job. No need for special tools.
As regards do you need the bee hive springs - yes you do! BMC found that previous to fitting the bee hive springs the brake shoe had a tendency to move away from the backplate under braking which caused the lining to wear unevenly across the shoe. BMC then incorporated the bee hive spring into the production process. If you have not had any problems when the bee hive springs are deleted then I consider you lucky. I have tried both with and without the bee hive springs and came to the conclusion that BMC were right in fitting the bee hive springs.

[jagnut66]

Hi,
I can confirm there are no movable parts, just a simple tool that it makes perfect sense to acquire or make (nicely done Berni == see the above post) when you have to deal with beehive springs whenever you pull the rear brakes apart with our Moggies.
Patent number on the brass collar reads: PATENT. 25402/63.
No makers name but there is this on the top of the handle, possibly just where it was turned but I have seen button shaped brass plates in this position with makers names on. If this was the case though it was sadly long gone when I acquired it.

Bee hive spring tool 4.JPG (884.65 KiB) Viewed 38137 times

The patent is probably long since expired but, if someone does look it up, any information that you can find would make an interesting historical post script to this post,
Best wishes,
Mike.

[Chief]

1015759 Improvements in and relating to hand-tools for fitting springs - GB - 05.01.1966

Int.Class B25B 27/30 Appl.No 2540263 Applicant SIDNEY JOHN STREETER Inventor

1,015,759. Stud and socket fastenings. S. J. STREETER. Aug. 5, 1964 [June 26, 1963], No. 25402/63. Heading E2B. [Also in Division B4 and F2].

A compressed coil spring 15 is fitted to a brake shoe by a headed pin 19 having a keyed end 18 which extends through an aperture in the brake shoe and passes through the coil.

A dished plate washer 16 having a control slot 17 is seated on the spring, the key extending through the slot and being rotated through 90 degrees to hold down the washer.

( https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/ ... LSXW-57944 )

Application GB2540263A events:

• 26 / 06 / 1963 - Application filed by SIDNEY JOHN STREETER

• 26 / 06 / 1963 - Priority to GB2540263A

• 05 / 01 / 1966 - Publication of GB1015759A

Status: Expired

( https://patents.google.com/patent/GB1015759A )

[geoberni]

1015759 Improvements in and relating to hand-tools for fitting springs - GB - 05.01.1966

Int.Class B25B 27/30 Appl.No 2540263 Applicant SIDNEY JOHN STREETER Inventor

1,015,759. Stud and socket fastenings. S. J. STREETER. Aug. 5, 1964 [June 26, 1963], No. 25402/63. Heading E2B. [Also in Division B4 and F2].

A compressed coil spring 15 is fitted to a brake shoe by a headed pin 19 having a keyed end 18 which extends through an aperture in the brake shoe and passes through the coil.

A dished plate washer 16 having a control slot 17 is seated on the spring, the key extending through the slot and being rotated through 90 degrees to hold down the washer.

( https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/ ... LSXW-57944 )

From that description, that's the patent for the 'other sort' of retaining spring which I posted about on the other recent retaining spring post. The ones that are in the parts list but nobody has ever seen them on a Minor....
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