STARTING PROBLEM ( INPUT APPRIECIATED)

[nomad2]

Hello fellow Moggists,

I have a 1959, 2 door Saloon, which has always been a good starter even on the nippiest of mornings, problem i have is that when i turn the ignition on & pull the black starter button out , nothing , but with ignition on, go round the front & turn it over manually with the starting handle it fires up fine, then go back & look at the dials & it is showing that it is charging ( as the light is out on the speedo ).

I spent yesterday changing the battery over on to another car & it fired that one up immediatly , as well as cleaning earth points on to the car & the starter motor terminal, also got a spanner on to the end of the starter motor & this was not jammed & was moving freely, then i noticed ( with the ignition on & my head in the engine bay ) a soft high pitched whistle from ( i think ) the starter motor pull switch, which is the flattish design , terminals either side & the button in the middle one with a cable, i also cleaned the terminals on this ,no difference though.
This seems like a good candidate for the problem, so i took the glove box cardboard out this morning to have a look ( easy access to the back bolt , not !!) & would be interested to hear more knowledgeable peoples opinions, before i take the switch out , as its a part i have never had to replace on a moggie before. the cable seems to be doing what it should, pulling in & out right up to where it dissappears into the centre hole of the switch back bolt, but as its job i have never done before Im a bit confused as to how the cable attaches to the switch, as I have had a look at new ones on E-bay & even from the large photos I cant see how it attaches.
This may not be the problem, but thought i would see what people think about the situation, from what ive tried so far.

Thanks in advance for any help offered.

Nomad

[chesney]

Try starting it using the solenoid button, on the solenoid on the bulkhead, between the two terminals, the small round 'pin'.
If that turns the engine, the cable is at fault. If nothing happens, further investigation to solenoid and/or contacts is required.
Though if the starter pull-switch is pulling out and springing back correctly, I cannot see that the problem is there.

[nomad2]

Hi There,
Yep, nothing happens when you press the button (pin ) under the bonnet, I got someone to tell me wether when I pull the facia pull does the pin move in & out, they said it did,
One further point is that the car is very original & I would doubt that the starter switch has ever been replaced & does look old.

Thanks Chesney

[kennatt]

does'nt mean its the solenoid ,to check put meter on terminal that leads to starter motor and other to earth,get someone to pull the button see if you get voltage across the solenoid,could just be a poor connection to the starter motor,The solenoids tentd to last for the lifetime of the vehicle if the square type,not the round aftermarket ones .If no meter rig up a test lamp one lead to starter side of solenoid and other to earth pull switch and see if it lights the bulb.
Actually just remembered I had the same On my ser11 and a good spray of penetrating oil onto the pin cured it,it wasn't pulling in far enough due to corrosion inside the solenoid

[katy]

The starter switch that nomad has is not a "solenoid", it's a mechanical switch operated by the pull cable. A solenoid is electrically operated.
To test the switch, put a set of jumper cables on the switch and then touch the other ends of the cables together.
HTH, Ken

[IslipMinor]

We have a 1958 with the same 'pull' starter switch and had to replace it a few years ago with the same symptoms. If you pulled very hard it would sometimes make contact, but replacing it solved the problem completely.

I'm sure it's not necessary to say it, but disconnect the battery before starting any work on the pull switch!!

[bmcecosse]

As above - it's NOT a solenoid - and since it's not practical to open it up, a new pull switch is required!

[nomad2]

Thanks to everyone who has replied, good of you.

From the replies it looks as if at least Im concentrating in the right area, as nobody came up with a totally different scenario, which helps.
Sorry to push my luck but has anybody actually changed the switch ( Islip minor, if youve got time ) & could tell me the process, does it all become self explanitary when you unbolt it ,with regards to how the cable fits on to the switch after it dissappears into the centre of the bolt hole on the rear ( inside the cabin under the dash ).

Thanks all for your help

[kennatt]

Yes it is a switch but most refer to it as a solenoid Have you tried giving it a dose of plus gas as above, it cured mine. you have nothing to loose just try it.,have you verified that it is NOT making the curcuit when the button is pulled via test lamdp or meter. again worth trying to confirm or otherwise. But each to their own buy a new one if thats what you want to do.

[nomad2]

Hi Kennatt,
I did spray some WD40 on it a few days ago, which did (after soaking in ) make the pin move in & out more efficiently, but still not start the car.
I have not done the electrical test you mention, have to admit that electrics have always been a bit of a mystery to me ( my bad ),which has probably been to my own detrimen.

Anyhow, thanks for your help Kennatt

[bmcecosse]

It can ONLY be a 'solenoid' when it is electrically operated.... These early pull starts are just switches - operated by a pull cable. Of course a screwdriver shorted across the terminals will spin the starter....just don't let it touch anything else at the same time - not even the pin in the middle.... I would think if the WD40 (or even better - electrical contact cleaner) could somehow be introduced inside the switch (maybe drill a small hole - battery disconnected of course) that would maybe free/clean the contacts to revive it! Worth a go I think..

[kennatt]

Hi nomad, it realy is worth buying a multemeter ,very cheap at the likes of maplins or any motor factors,they are simple to use if you follow the instructions ,have a look on U Tube,invaluable for checking connections etc.you don,t need to understand the basics of eletricity to use them ,for simple testing anyway.If you don't want to buy just rig up a test lamp with an old side light unit and extend the wires . One to earth one to the live side of what you want to test ,when the bulb lights you know youv'e got sound connections.

[IslipMinor]

it really is worth buying a multimeter

Yes, it is, but don't use it anywhere near the starter motor circuit, other than checking voltage! Most have a current capacity of 10A and the starter motor draws 200/300A.

ESM have a new starter pull switch for around £20 and that seems to be the going rate.

[nomad2]

Just a quick post to thank everyone who took the time to reply to my post, Im happy to say you were right it was the switch, a new starter switch was aquired from ESM, I fitted it without too much fuss, & am happy to report ,job done & shes starting first pull of the knob, again now .
Said car is now in the for sale section, I will be sorry to see her go, as shes a lovely car ,but i need the money for another restoration job i am doing.

Thanks once again. nomad ( great site )