A question of paint....

[stroprock]

I am thinking ahead a bit here (a rarity for me!), to when it comes to painting my saloon's bodyshell. It is at the moment english white, but parts have been bare metaled where they have been repaired (like the edges of the rear arches pictured, the parts under the wing will be stonechipped etc), and filled and etched primed over. My plan was to flat back the existing paint (cellulose?) as well as the filled areas and respray it, but is it worth going 2k with the top coat or staying with the original style of cellulose? Is it worth using a sealer/stopper coat first?


Many thanks, Kit

[tysonn]

Etch primer first of course on that bare metal.Are you painting it yourself?Celly or 2K eh?Watch the opinions flood in.2K every time for me both primer and top coat.If it had been available when your car was built they would have used it!
Mick

[stroprock]

Etch primer first of course on that bare metal.Are you painting it yourself?Celly or 2K eh?Watch the opinions flood in.2K every time for me both primer and top coat.If it had been available when your car was built they would have used it!
Mick

Yeah, I know already that cellulose takes longer due to flatting and lacquer etc, although it is safer (I have access to an air-fed mask for 2k), and I have only ever sprayed 2k primer before, so I am learning as I go along. I see both 2k and cellulose Old English Whites for sale for about the same price, so wondered what to go for. I am erring on the side of 2k...

[tysonn]

Pound for pound you'll get a much harder,more long lasting,easier to maintain,thicker,glossier etc etc finish with the 2k.Absolutely no contest IMHO.Others will be along shortly to say otherwise though ;-).

[stroprock]

Is it likely to be safe to spray 2k over the keyed and flatted existing paint or should I use a sealer first?

[les]

I use cellulose, for simplicity, not that I think it any better but I don't know all about the correct breathing stuff, and I don't know the procedures and mixing involved in 2 pack, including how much of this with how much of that, or indeed what to apply first, well I presume primer, or there again maybe it would be etch primer, I don't even know if that is available in 2 pack. I'm going to have to get myself down to a bodyshop and get educated on it all, sometime. Not that I have any plans to use it, just that I have never seen a basic from start to finish 'how to' guide on it. Then there is this clear coat thing, and lacquer.

[tysonn]

No major difference Les.The 2 pack needs a hardener to make it go off.Comes in all the flavours that celly does,etch,primer,top coat.If youre using clear coat the paint has no hardener,that goes in the lacquer.Mixing ratios are much more precise,usually 2 to 1,that is 2 paint, one hardener, approx 10% thinner.Consequently because theres not so much thinner theres less clouds of solvent as you put it on.Neither celly or 2 pack like being applied when its cold but 2 pack is a chemical reaction drying process unlike celly air drying/evaporation so does need some heat to assist this to happen.Far more depth to the paint(and primer)so less coats required.If well applied there is no need for any further finishing after the top coat unless youre after the look of celly(after all the graft of cutting it to a gloss)when wet flatting with 2000 grit paper and compounding will leave a finish thats identical(except that it will stay glossier,scratch less and last yonks longer than the celly.Yes I'm biased!
Mick

[stag36587]

Is it sensible to use lacquer on celly or a waste of time & effort?

[Redmoggy]

This is just what I would do if I didnt want to bare metal the shell.

Key the original finish with 400 grit.
Etch prime bare sufaces.
3-4 coats of 2K high build primer, tinted white and a guide coat.
Flat (using a block) with 800 grit and plenty of soapy water.
One dust coat followed by two full coats of 2K old English white.
Flat with 1000, 1500 and finish with 2000 grit. Again using a block.
Buff with a machine polisher.

Regards
Rod

[Redmoggy]

Stag.

If your going to clear over celly it would be best to use a 2K. Celly clear will require the same amount of time and effort to keep it's finish as a celly colour coat.

Rod

[kennatt]

if you have an air fed mask ,as you say,then there's no competition ,2k is by far the best paint to use,and as Tyson says if you wet flat it ,it looks exectly like celly. But harder and more durable.If not flatted and requires no cutting back from the gun, on a classic.I personally think it looks far too bright.
2k will normally go on top of most old paint without reacting,so can be put on top of your celly(Well flatted of course),and 2k primer/filler will not sink into filled areas and leave that dredded ring like celly does..
All the old hands will now come on and shout about damage to the environment.but its no worse than the damage celly does.All paint spraying is to an extent dangerous without proper precautions and safety equipment.,

[tysonn]

Could be wrong but I would have thought there was less vapour rising using 2k?Bear in mind you can get hardener now without the cyanide.
Mick

[kennatt]

Yes I think you're probably right there mick,In my family garage,been painting since the early 60s,the filters on the booth used to be changed once every 2 or three years, but,allthough no longer involved in it myself, been told by my brother,that that time is greatly extended since 2k use.And apparently the cyanide bit is a myth,its isocyanate,which is a different chemical,and allthough still nasty,isn;t going to turn the hair green. just what I've been told.

[ossiemobile]

Hi, my problem is previous owner[s] have, poorly, painted, BUT what with ??? So, how do I tell what sort of paint ??? I had a Riley done in emulsion once, & a gorgeously brushed household enamel Herald !!!! Both a nightmare to prep for my cellulose - which is always straightforward & no laquer on either. SO chaps, stage one, how to test existing paint.... thanks

[kennatt]

Easy, find an area that you are going to strip/repaint. Get a rag and soak it with celly thinner,place it on top of paint and leave for a while,10. 30m. If its celly it will soften the paint ,if its 2K it will have no effect, if its another type of paint ie DULUX Gloss,of oil based automotive it will have lifted and crazed the surface.

[tysonn]

And just hope its the first or second result!
Mick

[ossiemobile]

AH, at this point I discover, again, that new specs are required, at 73 it's becoming an annual thing ..... ALWAYS INDELIBLY mark containers ---- I thought I'd tried this, I now find I was useing Acetone [only ce was showing on the can ..............] Since my time Health & safety was invented, now we know why.. Many thanks

[kennatt]

AH, at this point I discover, again, that new specs are required, at 73 it's becoming an annual thing ..... ALWAYS INDELIBLY mark containers ---- I thought I'd tried this, I now find I was useing Acetone [only ce was showing on the can ..............] Since my time Health & safety was invented, now we know why.. Many thanks

Not far away myself,(Should have gone to spec savers) And as tyson say hope its 1 or 2. if three then you have a problem,a big problem.