Seized Brakes

[svenedin]

My 1969 convertible has sat sleeping in the garage for nearly 2 decades. The handbrake was left on and the brakes are completely seized. Can anyone give me a brief guide on how to start this job? I have a Haynes manual but I don't think it says what to do if the brakes are stuck on. I intend to replace the entire braking system for safety's sake. I am wondering how I will be able to get the drums off if the shoes are stuck tight up against them. The car also needs a new gearbox. That job is beyond me but if the car is ever going to get to have the gearbox sorted I need to be able to move it.

[bmcecosse]

If you can get at the wheels - remove them and hammer the drums - with a lump of timber between drum and hammer - to shock the shoes free - with 'turning back and forward' till you get each wheel in turn free. Then drag it out and renew them all! If the front drums are only 7" diameter - it's well worth taking the chance to upgrade to the later 8" front drums. If you can't get at the wheels then you'll just need to drag it out with locked wheels !!

[svenedin]

OK sounds like a plan. Yes I can get to all the wheels. The car is parked in an ordinary garage and there is access all around it. Getting the car so that it can move will make all the other jobs that need doing so much easier. I think the car already has the later 8" drums at the front. Are the drums likely to be knackered? Can they be skimmed like discs can if the are very rusty?

[tysonn]

No point really they arent too expensive.

[mike.perry]

Release the handbrake and tap the lever at the back of the cylinder with said hammer to try to get some movement and if possible remove the split pin and clevis pin to separate the handbrake cable from the cylinder. Continue knocking seven bells out of the lever, chuck plenty of oil round the back and knock the cylinder up and down in its slot. With a bit of luck you may get the wheel to rotate.
If you have achieved this you can remove the wheel and slacken the brake adjuster screw. Then coninue knocking seven bells out of the drum or use a hub extracter

[bmcecosse]

The drums will likely be fine with a good hand rub with emery - don't rush to get new drums - the shoes may be ok too! You'll have plenty to spend cash on -don't worry about that...

[svenedin]

Good. I don't want to be replacing every part. Firstly it all adds up and whilst individual parts might not be too pricy I'm not made of money. Secondly, my other hobby is clockmaking and watchmaking -replacing parts is considered bad form unless they are beyond repair. One can never be sure that new parts are of the same quality as originals. This is certainly true of clock mainsprings. Small, precision jobs in cars I like -carbs for example. Big, heavy stuff worries me a lot more. I am never quite sure how much force is acceptable. I was lucky that when I was in my early twenties I had an elderly mechanic friend. He had 2 Morris 8's and would be happy to be getting on with jobs for customers whilst he told me what to do with my car. I remember doing the brakes and I fear those drum screws came out with an impact driver last time after I ruined the heads. He was very meticulous and taught me about torque settings and greasing bolts with copper grease so I wouldn't spend an hour swearing next time. He also insisted I wore a mask when we blew out the drums with an air hose. Asbestos brake linings must have been on their way out at the time but he knew the risks. He didn't care but he cared for my safety. I'm a doctor so I realise it was a good idea to be careful. He was a good man old Dave. His garage was in Wandsworth, South London. I went to school with his son but he moved up North somewhere. Northumberland I think. Must get in touch with him.

[mike.perry]

If the brakes have been seized for 20 years it is likely most parts will need replaceing except the drums.
I like working on big things that you can hit and swear at!!!

[svenedin]

Agreed. I see you are Mike Perry. I'm Stephen Perry. Hello!

[bmcecosse]

You'll just have to grit your teeth and forget about clocks when walloping the drums - but do make sure there is a good lump of wood to protect the drums from damage...

[svenedin]

Started the brakes tonight with one of the rear drums. As expected, totally seized. I cannot rotate the drum at all. I managed to get the 2 large crosshead screws out but what is the small crosshead screw for? It isn't mentioned in the Haynes manual. It screws in and out and seems to cause the drum to move a bit. Naturally I was not lucky enough to be able to access the adjusting screw through the hole in the drum. The Haynes manual mentions another kind of adjuster "on later models" which is a square head on the back of the backplate. I'm assuming I don't have that kind of adjuster as there is a hole in the drum. I'll have another go with the hammer tomorrow! I can get a little bit of movement rocking back and forth but not much.

[bmcecosse]

Good old Haynes ! Minors NEVER had an adjuster on the backplate... I'm not getting your extra screw either... there is a 3rd screw which locates and secures the half shaft flange - but it is under the drum.. You shouldn't be able to access that until the drum is removed - although you may be able to see part of it through a small hole in the drum. Bang bang bang with a HEAVY hammer , all round the drum diameter (but not right on the edge) - but with timber to protect the drum.... Do follow Mike's tip re the handbrake lever - well worth trying.

[svenedin]

Here is a picture. Small crosshead screw indicated by arrow. Screwing this in seems to move the drum as if the shoes are being made tighter against it, screwing it out doesn't seem to do much. It doesn't want to come out completely so I haven't tried. I don't think it is holding the drum on because it can screw in quite a long way into its hole. I thought I had better ask what it was for before I start to use brute force, hammers and ignorance on the drum. PS Don't worry about the jack, there is no load on it. Axle stands in use.

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[beero]

Mine sat for 20 odd years as well and the drums were fine. I got the worst rust off with a wire wheel on a small grinder then used wet & dry. New shoes and the brakes were fine. The main expense was that EVERYTHING made of rubber had perished, tyres, hoses,suspension bushes, brake cylinder rubbers, etc.

[svenedin]

Mine sat for 20 odd years as well and the drums were fine. I got the worst rust off with a wire wheel on a small grinder then used wet & dry. New shoes and the brakes were fine. The main expense was that EVERYTHING made of rubber had perished, tyres, hoses,suspension bushes, brake cylinder rubbers, etc.

That is exactly the case with my car as well. All the rubber has perished everywhere. Not only that but fuel residue has been a nightmare in the carb, float chamber, tank, fuel pump etc. Mind you, I can now confidently strip these parts down and it fired up first time today! I had already fallen back in love with the car, even more so hearing the engine again.

[LUR759H]

I think my brakes are the same, my car was last taxed in 1974 the engine started fine before I removed it, and will hopefully be ok but the brakes have all rusted the piping is all falling apart, so bought new on ebay, also bought drums and other parts for the brakes but I worry about doing this job myself as if faulty could kill me self or family or others....

Alan

[mike.perry]

That set screw is to retain the half shaft and cannot be removed until the drum is removed.
If you knock the brake drum inwards you may be able to slacken the other two set screws which are drum rtaining screws and should not be used to tighten the drum onto the axle. This should be done by drawing the drum on with a couple of wheel nuts and then fitting the retaining screws, but that is for later.

[svenedin]

Thank you. I will leave the small screw alone. The two larger screws came out easily. I actually remember doing the brakes (under the supervision of a mechanic friend) when I was 18. He was a great believer in copper grease on threads to stop them seizing and this clearly worked! Those set screws were very difficult to get out that time and I think it was an impact driver that got them out.

I will have another go in the morning. The penetrating oil may have done something by then. There was a bit of movement but the drum was tending to start to move on one side and not the other and so binding on the studs (rather like the thermostat housing that drove me mad a few days ago).

[MarkyB]

You have the drum on the move now, you need to tap it back flat then have another go.
I normally use a lever under one side while I tap the other to get it to come off straight.
Swap which side is getting which treatment and tap it back level if it starts to get cocked.

[svenedin]

I'd just like to thank you all for your help with this job. I managed to get the rear drum off this morning. It took a long time and was difficult but it finally came off.

The strange thing is, I can't account for why the job was so difficult. I said earlier that I remembered doing the brakes 20 years ago. This must have been shortly before the car was put away because the brakes are in amazing condition. The drums look like a brand new part and everything is very clean. The cylinder is not actually seized. It moves in and out with the handbrake. I can only assume that it came free as the drum came off or with the hammering on the drum.

I'm going to replace the cylinder, flexible hose and shoes (and overhaul master cylinder and change brake fluid). I would like to change all the solid piping as well (and I've been looking for a kunifer kit) but I think it is too big a job for me and all I am really trying to achieve is to get the car to a state where it can leave my garage to go to a Minor specialist to have the problem with the gearbox sorted out. I don't have a ramp or pit so it would mean crawling under the oil soaked car and I'm worried about forming the pipe into the bends required. I was very pleased to see that the car looks in brilliant condition underneath, I think the oil leak from the rear of the engine was a blessing. It splattered everything with so much oil that it has been beautifully preserved. My garage must be very dry as well judging by the complete absence of rust inside the brake drum.

The red you can see is the reflection of my overalls.
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