Trunnion bushes

[bmcecosse]

Does anyone know offhand the dimensionss for the bushes in the king pin lower trunnion ? I have a perfectly good kingpin/trunnion set - except the bushes in the lower trunnion are ruined. The pin is too - but that's easily obtained....

[philthehill]

bmc
The bush is a split one similar to the 'A' series rocker bush, steel backed copper alloy coated on the inside; and as no doubt you are aware there are two bushes in the bottom trunnion.

The dimensions of each unfitted split bush are as follows:

Length:.................................................19.00mm

O/D:....................................................20.62mm/20.72mm (measured at right angle to the split) )
( both bushes measured.
I/D:.....................................................17.44mm/17.52mm (measured at right angle to the split) )

I/D of trunnion housing:............................20.63mm

O/D of trunnion pin:................................17.43mm

Length of trunnion pin bearing surface:.........51.06mm

As regards the trunnion pin - try and get NOS Marina/Ital ones as they have a much better finish than the Minor ones now sold.

You could always purchase a Marina/Ital bottom trunnion kit and use the bushes and pin out that kit. The kits are cheap - see 'e' bay item No: 380938289835 £8.95 plus £3.50 postage. The bushes press out easily and as the pin dimensions are the same on the bearing surface reaming of the bush should not be required.
A new bottom trunnion pin from ESM (Pt No: SUS157) is £3.95 plus P&P plus VAT.

Attached is a photo of a pair of bushes removed from a bottom trunnion.



GENERAL NOTE: The Marina/Ital bottom trunnion will NOT fit the Minor swivel pin as the Marina/Ital bottom swivel pin threads are larger.[frame][/frame]

[bmcecosse]

Thanks Phil - I guessed you would come back... There is a nasty 'knock' from the LH side of the car when turning the steering...so I think a kingpin change is on the cards asap. I have a perfectly good spare kingpin - but the bushes in the bottom trunnion are in tatters. I've had a good dig around in my spares filing cabinet and found various bits and pieces - including a new Marina fulcrum pin and a brand new bottom trunnion (luckily correct 'hand') strangely without a pin... so I am sorted at the moment. I may well buy that kit from ebay - thanks for the tip. I did look at buying a pin last night - the price varies amazingly between suppliers -and then some (especially ESM) add on a fortune for postage! MOSS show the bushes and give them a part number -but don't have any for sale..grrrr.

[philthehill]

Bush Pt No: ACA4009. NLS by Moss.
No one seems to stock them anymore but they must be available as they are fitted to replacement bottom trunnions.
No doubt someone on here will come up with a source.
Note to self - I must remove those new bushes from the pair of new Marina/Ital bottom trunnions I recently purchased for the trunnion pins and thrust washers.

[bmcecosse]

The spare pin I have is ex a Marina trunnion - so I will press the bushes out of that too. What a pity the makers of the new kingpins on sale now - didn't take the opportunity to use the larger/presumably stronger and less wear prone marina thread for the bottom trunnion.

[bmcecosse]

These bushes look like Glacier items - we had machines that spat them out in a constant stream - like a machine gun!

[philthehill]

bmc
Correct
They are stamped with the Vandervell/Glaicer logo but in a mirror image.[frame][/frame]

The Marina/Ital bottom trunnion threads wear just a badly as the Minor ones if not looked after.
I have previously owned a 1800cc Marina and a 1.7 Ital and they both needed work doing on the bottom trunnions.
The reason that size of the swivel threads in the bottom trunnion was increased was I believe because of the fitment of the larger drum brakes and on some models disc brakes.
Fitting the disc brakes to Minor swivels does not seem to have had any ill effects even with the smaller dia threads fitted to the Minor bottom trunnion.

[bmcecosse]

When I was Materials Unit Engineering Manager at Glacier - Vandervell was the opposition! But later on, Glacier took them over - and then Federal Mogul took over the whole lot. The 'Glacier' factory in Kilmarnock is still going strong - under the FM flag of course. Having looked at the supposedly 'good' trunnion this evening - the pin has worn through the bearing and damaged the trunnion. Pity -cos it's snug on the king pin threads. The king pin came off a car I scrapped many moons ago - and it's fine now with a new trunnion - and the fulcrum pin from the marina trunnion...

[M25VAN]

What a pity the makers of the new kingpins on sale now - didn't take the opportunity to use the larger/presumably stronger and less wear prone marina thread for the bottom trunnion.

Or that the fabled Walford trunnions were never available for the Minor.
Replaceable trunnions that never wore out the king pin, what a great idea.

[philthehill]

Walford Self Cutting Trunnions - a bit like installing Heli-coils.

The whole idea of the undercutting of the trunnion threads was to give them a second life.
The Swivel pin die nut set (0.015" undersize) Pt No: 18G305A are no doubt still out there somewhere but I have never seen any undersize trunnions for sale for some time and they were painted orange to distinguish them from the standard product.
Copious amount of Lard Oil was required when the cut was being made.

[bmcecosse]

I'm amazed to see Glacier 'type' DU and DX bushes still being sold today. My Unit produced the strip material which was then formed into the spit bushings. We were making them over 20 years ago (the DX had only just been introduced) when I moved on to other employment.... I can thoroughly recommend the DX bushings if there is one in a suitable size - and will be a LOT less expensive and less hassle than salvaging bushes from Marina trunnions and then throwing the trunnion away!
http://www.arbearings.co.uk/products/gl ... ushes.html

[Juergen]

Just want to say that there are more producers of bushes on the market, like KS Gleitlager from Germany. The parts are also sold in the UK and the quality is excellent. I think I should add that I am a member of staff of MS Motorservice International GmbH

http://download-per.ms-motorservice.de/ ... de_web.pdf

[philthehill]

I have checked the dimensions of the lower trunnion bushes against the web site of http://www.arbearings.co.uk and the wrapped bush TFPSWB2206 meets the requirements but please check yourself to ensure compatibility.
Minimum order?????
There is only one snag with fitting new bushes and that is the fact that they will need reaming to 11/16" and not many people have a 11/16" reamer.
I agree with bmc regarding the disposal of good Marina/Ital trunnions minus the bottom bushes but at least you know that you should not have to ream the Marina/Ital bushes as they will have already been reamed, Marina/Ital bottom trunnions are two a penny and so you will not be keeping a Marina/Ital owner off the road and much cheaper than purchasing a 11/16" reamer at £25 plus and which may only be used once.

Juergen
Can you please provide details of availability.
The dimensions are in my post above. The one dimension missing is the total wall thickness which is 0.063"(edit) after reaming.
Phil

[bmcecosse]

There are many bushes for sale on ebay - priced at ~ 99p each. Marina trunnions are not inexpensive - but will also supply a good fulcrum pin of course.... I'm not sure pressing out bushes - and then pressing them in again won't affect the bore - so a run through with a reamer - or a nice sharp/new drill bit will probably be required to 'clean them up anyway.

[philthehill]

Not forgetting the trunnion thrust washers (Pt No: ACA5280) which are currently not available from the main suppliers.

When I get a moment I will remove a pair of new trunnion bushes from a Marina/Ital bottom trunnion and fit them to a Minor bottom trunnion and see how it works out.

[Juergen]

@Phil
I'll check availability on Monday when I'm back in the office.

[Juergen]

Having checked the dimensions, our technicians think that the wall thickness is not 0,063 mm but 0,063 inch. Nevertheless this size is not a standard size, which means a custom-made product, where the minimum order quantity is 10.000 pieces.

So I have to say sorry, for not being able to help.

[bmcecosse]

I'm sure the sizes will be Imperial...not metric. I haven't attempted to measure - but I'm sure the walls are NOT 63 thou thick....very possibly 0.63mm, which is more likely at 25 thou. Hardly worth setting up a Bruderer even for 10,000 I suspect!

[philthehill]

My mistake
Measured again and should be 0.063"
This is the problem with having imperial and metric tags it gets confusing to us old timers.

[bmcecosse]

Seriously? 63 thou thick??