marina caliper

[Budgie]

Hi folks I need to pick your brains again! A per my last request I have changed the complete swivel pins on my tourer well at least my mechanic did but he failed to get the drivers side off so he only replaced the trunnions on that side and I can't remember the reason but I assume it was too tight? The drivers side calliper has been playing up i.e. seizing and it's got to the point where I have been told that I need a new one as it as rusted {the piston that is} too much and will not return so I was wondering if you can buy just the calliper alone ?It is a marina calliper or at least from what the mechanic says, it's got marina pads ,or do I have to purchase the whole ,new unit?.....I also need a new front passenger wheel bearing

Many thanks in anticipation,
Budgie

[Chipper]

Hi,

Sounds like you need to find a better mechanic, if he can't attend to such a simple suspension as found on the Minor!

You may be able to rescue the caliper with a rebuild kit, otherwise you should ideally buy a new pair (it's a bit dodgy to just fit one replacement, as it may give brake imbalance).

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_trksi ... &_from=R40

The bearings are readily available in motor factors or on E-bay; all Marinas used the same ones, and they were also used on the Triumph TR7.

[bmcecosse]

I agree - sounds like rubbish 'mechanic'... One caliper will be ok - PROVIDED the other one is working as it should. And yes -search ebay for the bearings.....buy why do you think you need a complete new set? The Marina (and TR7) uses a large inner taper roller - and a much small outer taper roller (Yes - the logic escapes me too) - and in my experience only the outer small bearing 'fails'. It's not expensive.... Who says you need bearings - the same 'mechanic' ??

[Budgie]

Thanks for the update so far guys and yes the "same mechanic" I've just been looking at the esm site and the calliper is £55.95 plus the dreaded I wasn't sure that you could buy just the calliper alone so that was a nice surprise and on the bearing side of things seeing as it's a marina set up I would assume that I need to purchase the marina wheel bearing kit? Also could I get away with just the repair kit for the calliper or would it be best to get a new calliper?

[bmcecosse]

I have often re-built calipers (Cooper S) in the past. It's straightforward although not 'easy'. Be sure to use stainless pistons. Did the 'mechanic' wreck the bearing when he was 'not able' to change your suspension king pin assembly? What's wrong with the bearings?

[Budgie]

Apparently the worn bearing is on the side that he managed to completely change ,he did say however that there was some tolerance allowed and said that it could pass the mot which is due in July so I may try my luck if you reckon that they don't usually tend to wear out and from what the "mechanic" said. I just wonder why exactly he couldn't take the old swivel pin off I'd be much happier if he did I'll have to ask him tomorrow when I pick the car up and pay him.

[bmcecosse]

These bearings are adjustable - but it may have started to feel 'slightly rough' - which is what failed my TR7 at the end of last year. I only replaced the one small outer bearing.

[Budgie]

But just to clarify ,if I do need to change to bearing I will need to purchase the "Marina" bearing as opposed to a minor one?

[Chipper]

Yes, the Marina ones are specific to the Marina hubs, being the tapered roller type rather than plain bearings as on the Minor.

[philthehill]

Unless you have fitted Marina/Ital stub axles you will not be able to fit straight Marina/Ital inner/outer wheel bearings. If your Marina/Ital/Minor disc brake conversion is the old type Grumpy's Marina/Ital front brake arrangement with the top hat spacer you will need the Marina/Ital to Minor conversion kit available from Bull Motif (Pt No: MOD118 or MOD118B).
ESM have a different bearing arrangement and hub without the spacer so you need to check which conversion is fitted!
The Bull Motif (ex Grumpy's) conversion kit has a different outer bearing to the standard Marina/Ital one and is:-

Timken............Pt No: L44649 99401
L44610 1194
or
SKF.................Pt No: 30203 J2

For the Grumpy's kit the inner Marina/Ital bearing is standard as is the hub seal.

As regards the calliper - seals are available from ESM (Pt No: DSK102).
Calliper pistons (Pt No: BRP 234801) (look under Austin for Marina/Ital) are available from Big Red Ltd (have just taken delivery of qty 4) at Worcester. Tel: 01905428793 http://www.biggred.co.uk The ones just received are still in their sealed packets so not sure if stainless or not. Also not sure whether stainless steel pistons are available but give them a ring they are very helpful.

What ever you do DO NOT split the calliper halves. Difficult to re-align/join back together and I do not know how available the seal(s) between the two halves are. The official BMC/BL line was not to split them.

I agree with the above in that you need to change your mechanic as the Minor suspension is one of the simplest around and there should be no difficulty removing the steering swivel/trunnions and carrying out any necessary repairs.

[daveyl]

If you do disassemble the callipers, I would suggest applying a little 'red rubber grease' to the piston rubber seal on the re-build.

[bmcecosse]

You DO need to change the pistons and seals - you just do it WITHOUT splitting the calipers!

[Budgie]

Oh dear and to think I was getting to grips with all this and you throw me a googly! So how will an amateur like me know what bearings I have all I know is when I bought the car some years ago I was told that they were Marina disc brakes but it seems from what is said it's not as simple and straight forward as that [ oh for a standard moggy I know my way around them ] btw when I picked the car up today I asked why he couldn't remove the drivers side swivel pin arm and he said that the spacer was seized onto the stub axle and he had tried a gas welders torch to try and free it but too no avail , also the steering is now extremely heavy / stiff should this be the case?

[bmcecosse]

Well -at least you know now that you have the 'top hat spacer' bearing rig on the car! No - the steering should be finger light......did he grease the swivels??? Did he clear the swarf out of the new trunnions before fitting them?

[Budgie]

I'll have to ask him about the steering when I next see him then about greasing, swarf etc. I'll have arms like Arine if I carry on the way it is !

[philthehill]

It is now clear why the O/S swivel was not renewed as the top hat spacer was seized/locked (I always use Loctite to stop the top hat bush from rotating and it does take a reasonable amount of heat to remove the spacer from the stub axle) on the stub axle. Unless your mechanic had one to hand it would be difficult if not near impossible to refit the Marina Brakes and you would have been off the road until the top hat spacer was released from the stub axle or a new top hat spacer was obtained. So perhaps your mechanic has more knowledge of Minors than first thought/indicated.
The top hat washer is available from Bull Motif PT No: MOD118A.
I would advise that you get a new top hat spacer from Bull Motif; fit to the new O/S swivel stub axle, utilise the new top and bottom trunnions already fitted but make sure that they are as bmc says free of swarf and crud before fitting to the new O/S swivel with new seals top and bottom and fit the assembly to the Minor making sure that they are well greased with the load off the top and bottom trunnion threads.
Note: When fitting the new top hat spacer make sure that the spacer does not bottom out before butting up against the Minor hub oil seal boss. On occasions I have had to turn several thou" off the spacer to make sure that the spacer fits tight up against the Minor hub oil seal boss and not against the brake back plate mounting.

[bmcecosse]

As above - use the new king pin with a new top-hat spacer, and hope the new trunnions haven't been damaged by fitting them to the old/worn king pin.

[Budgie]

I think the mechanic also stated that the threads on the swivel arm were also "damaged "in some way and that was also a reason why he couldn't get it off to replace Any how I took her for a short spin today and the steering seemed to have eased a bit so not as stiff / tight as it first was after the replacements. The calliper is still binding though so looks like more time and money hey ho !

[Chipper]

Don't drive it far with damaged threads; the trunnions have been known to suddenly pull out of the kingpin, resulting in suspension collapse and the car ending up in a ditch or worse!

[philthehill]

May I suggest that you get a written statement of what is wrong with the steering and brakes from your mechanic and post that statement on here because there does seem to be some uncertainty of what is right and wrong.