Starter motor perhaps?

[guymcc]

Evening all,

Having some issues with the car. I will try and be brief. So car has been sat over winter and not started, trickle charged every now and then but not permanently.

Decided to start the car with jump leads for extra juice. It briefly coughed but didnt catch. Since then I havent been able to get it started at all. Everything seems fine with the fueling side of things etc. Now though, this is what it's doing...

Ignition on, fuel pump ticks a few times, and when i turn the key, all it does is click, lights on speedo stay on. So ive done a check using a jump lead from the non earth direct to the solenoid terminal (where the red and white wire joins) and i get a spark and the same click, only louder as i'm now standing in front of the engine bay. Importantly though, the starter motor is doing nothing, not any noises at all.

Leading up to this, i would say that in the past when starting the car the starter motor, i would describe as, lets go too soon and the engine doesn't fire, but repeating the start and it would last long enough 'engaged' to get the car to start ok.

Does this sound like a starter motor problem? Just to add the small square in the centre of the motor nearest the front of the car turns freely.

Any help would be good as i'm wanting to get the Mot re done as its due next week.

TIA

[bmcecosse]

Sounds like flat battery or bad connections at the battery/starter/earth .... But - does the engine turn over freely by hand?? Check with Ign OFF obviously...take the plugs out if need be....

[guymcc]

I have tried using jump leads from another car's battery, and still makes the same single 'click' when turning the key, so i don't think its the battery. I will try turning the car over, using the fan i assume and what am i trying to listen out for? I will also disconnect the battery and then re-connect, worth a try i suppose. Also i undid the solenoid to starter wire on the starter and re-attached just to see of this made any difference.

Is there any point trying the button on the bottom of the solenoid? I tried this with the ignition on and the button did absolutely nothing?

Also is there a way of just testing the starter motor in situ? ie jump lead from battery to where the solenoid connects to the starter?
Cheers

[mike.perry]

Not all solenoids have a button, some just look like buttons but do nothing.
Check all cables are tight and two long bolts holding the starter together are tight and that the case is not rotating.
Also check that the terminal bolt is tight. I have just corrected these faults, one on each car.

[kennatt]

yes run a lead(JUMP LEAD SIZE) from the battery to where the lead from the solenoid connects to the starter motor,if it turns then its the solenoid or power/earth to it thats at fault. If the starter fails to turn make sure there is an earth to it,clamp a lead from the case.ie the starter motor bolt on the bell housing,to earth. if still no go then starter motor is duff.

[guymcc]

Not all solenoids have a button, some just look like buttons but do nothing.
Check all cables are tight and two long bolts holding the starter together are tight and that the case is not rotating.
Also check that the terminal bolt is tight. I have just corrected these faults, one on each car.

Pretty sure my button on the solenoid does something as i recall using it in the past. I will double check all the bolts and cables, although its odd that, having not moved (the car that is...) it has stopped working. Done the terminal bolt.

Thanks

[guymcc]

yes run a lead(JUMP LEAD SIZE) from the battery to where the lead from the solenoid connects to the starter motor,if it turns then its the solenoid or power/earth to it thats at fault. If the starter fails to turn make sure there is an earth to it,clamp a lead from the case.ie the starter motor bolt on the bell housing,to earth. if still no go then starter motor is duff.

Ok so had a go at running a lead like you say, and nothing, just some sparks!! I will check with an earth now..

Thanks folks.

ps battery and connections have been double checked.

[bmcecosse]

And the engine is free to turn? There have been recent reports of failed solenoids...is it a NEW solenoid - or an original one? And it could be the starter - if it still doesn't spin up even with jump leads directly to the starter.

[guymcc]

Well the engine turns over fine using the fan/alternator. I removed the starter motor, after having to remove the brake servo! and tested it on the ground, earthing it to the test battery. It was spinning up but a bit intermittent, sometimes fast and then sometimes laboured. So i thought perhaps it was just a connection problem. put it back in to the car and connected the solenoid cable back on. after cleaning up the connection point. Nothing, from either the car battery and the test battery that i was using when the motor was off. So i then took it back off a re-connected it to the test battery, which is on the X-trail and works well. And this time nothing, well it didnt turn. What i did get was sparking from the connection point if i put it up against the very head of the threaded bit where there is a wee collar. This seemed odd and now i think i've fooked it!

Any thoughts?

i would add that the solenoid looks like original one.

[bmcecosse]

Inspect the brushes! Is it the radial type - with a metal band cover over the brushes....... Or the (much less satisfactory) later type with 'end -on' brushes?

[guymcc]

Inspect the brushes! Is it the radial type - with a metal band cover over the brushes....... Or the (much less satisfactory) later type with 'end -on' brushes?

Its the radial type. What am i looking for exactly, I have pulled it apart, but i'm unsure as to what to be looking for. All the little springs were working and none of the brushes were jammed in their groove.

[guymcc]

Having another look at this starter motor last night, and all I'm getting from it is that smell like something has burnt out. I'm putting this down to the sparking i was getting when I tested it the second time round.

The commutator and brush gear all look ok, but really not sure what I'm looking for, the brush ends are worn but seem to be moving fine and touching the commutator no problem. I put it all back together and was a little confused as to where the routing of the longer brushes, the ones attached to the field coils should go, seems to want to foul on a few things, aside from that one of the shorter brush wires broke too!

So given the smell, and non working testing, broken brush wire, and dodgy routing of the longer brush wire, I think I will bite the bullet and get another starter motor. Would ESM be the place to go? I see they are just over £50.

[guymcc]

These are the pictures I took last night....comments welcome....

[bmcecosse]

Strange shape on the commutator.....and looks a bit 'burned' too....... I suggest a good secondhand starter is the way forward here - and worry about that one later....

[guymcc]

Great, will get one ordered up.

[bmcecosse]

Here you go - expensive carriage - but perhaps try 'Parcels to Go' ?? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/morris-minor- ... 233911a4f7

[guymcc]

Here you go - expensive carriage - but perhaps try 'Parcels to Go' ?? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/morris-minor- ... 233911a4f7

Cheers!

[guymcc]

Once I've got the motor, just thinking back to the original post, when turning the key it clicked and the lights stayed on! What does this indicate?

[bmcecosse]

It indicated that the starter wasn't drawing any power!

[guymcc]

It indicated that the starter wasn't drawing any power!

Would it indicate that, to put it another way, power wasn't getting to the starter perhaps???

Starter coming next week, so looking forward to getting to the bottom of this...