Radiator inlet pipe angle

[Ufudu]

Hi all and the best of 2014 to all!

I filled the radiator this morning and found a leak underneath where the elbow is brazed onto the radiator. You can see a dark vertical colour under this point on the photo.

The radiator has obviously been previously reconditioned whilst still owned by the PO, and it has been concerning to me that the elbow is not in line with the thermostat housing outlet, forcing the flexible hose out of line.

With this leak it seems apparent that the elbow had been removed & brazed back at the wrong angle.

Please can someone confirm the elbow should be pointing down in line with the thermostat outlet?

thanks[frame][/frame]

[LouiseM]

The elbow seems to be at the correct angle as it isn't supposed to point down. Are you sure that the leak is coming from the elbow rather than the radiator core? The top 'ledge' directly underneath the elbow joint looks dry but if it is definitely leaking from the elbow joint the brazing may have 'failed' and will need redoing (or better still, get a new radiator if you can).

[bmcecosse]

I agree - the leak appears to be from the core - at least in that picture. Is the engine sitting low? Or the radiator sitting high? I would wipe it all dry with tissue and try to spot exactly where the leak originates.

[LouiseM]

Is the engine sitting low? Or the radiator sitting high?

Now you come to mention it Roy, it doesn't look as though the engine is fully fitted - no spark plug leads and is that a hoist strap coming from underneath and going upwards?

[Ufudu]

Louise, BMC, thanks for the fast responses.

I used the soapy water leak rest and you are correct, the leak appears to be from just above the ledge under the elbow, not the elbow joint itself. There is visual evidence to support this. It may be poor reconditioning by the radiator folks. I'll scrape away in the area to have a look see, but it seems a job for the specialists anyway.

BMC, to answer your question, I think the engine must be at the right height, it is on the original towers & mounts & lines up with the gearbox etc; all looks straight.

The radiator grill and front panels all seem in the right place, the bonnet closes with only a little left right asymmetry, but vertically I can't see anything unusual.

However what you are confirming is the top hose looks at the wrong angle? Are there any other reference points I can photo or measure?

The engine is fitted, what you see in the foreground is the silver oil pressure pipe for the gauge.

Many thanks

[Ufudu]

Here are 3 more photo's two showing the radiator height above front grill, and one other showing the LHS engine & radiator mounting points.[frame][/frame][frame][/frame][frame][/frame]

[LouiseM]

Lovely clean engine bay

I'm not sure that the top hose is at the wrong angle - it all looks OK to me. I'll check out my one later to see if it's the same and maybe take some comparison photos if that would be helpful?

[Ufudu]

Louise, thanks that would be very helpful!

Thanks for all your help!

regards

Erwin

[LouiseM]

No problem! I'll post up some photos a bit later this afternoon

[Ufudu]

Turns out I was wrong, the crack was at the pipe.... I'll give it a go repairing it.[frame][/frame]

[philthehill]

Looking at the first photograph and then comparing the Minor thermostat housing with a 1275cc engine thermostat housing the thermostat housing fitted appears to be more like the 1275cc housing. If it is a 1275cc thermostat housing it will put extra strain on the radiator top hose pipe and cause it to fail.
A clear photograph of the thermostat housing would be appreciated.

[Ufudu]

Here we go, photo of new item as well as the one removed from the car.

New item is # 10M220 purchased from BM.

thanks[frame][/frame]

[simmitc]

That's a lovely clean engine and bay, looks like a really good job. From the photos, the mountings all look correct to me; but the hose definitely has a pronounced kink that is not right. The thermostat housing looks correct, so that really leaves only the radiator elbow as being slightly out of line - unusual, but not impossible. I see a non-standard bottom hose - any particualr reason?

[philthehill]

Thank you for the photograph. The old and new appear to be the same. I have looked at the part illustration on the Bull Motif web site and the part number is right 10M220A.
So you seem to have the right parts and the inlet pipe to the radiator is correct.
If my memory serves me right there was produced as an after market item a modified thermostat housing with an improved angle of the outlet to align better with the radiator outlet. Someone on here may be able to provide additional information.
I did find a reference on the web to the fitting of a MGB thermostat housing (Pt No: 12H797) instead of the Minor one which gives a better alignment. The stud holes have to be drilled out to 10mm to allow the housing to accommodate the Minor stud configuration.
There does not appear to be a heater fitted to the car so the 'non standard' hose (ESM Pt No: RAD108) is correct in that it does not need a heater return pipe attachment.

[Ufudu]

Thanks for that,

The bottom hose is a RAD108 "Radiator Bottom Hose-Reinforced **Early O.H.V Plain Type**" from ESM and I thought was standard for the 948cc without a heater?

The radiator elbow is pretty much horizontal and I would have thought it should be pointing slightly downwards since the thermostat outlet is below the radiator inlet...

I have soldered the elbow, with a substantial fillet to reduce the flexing at that point, so no more leaks.... and may well live with it for a while and keep an eye on it.

Come to think of it the PO used a straight piece of hose which could well have placed the strain on the joint.

The radiator cap is also incorrect as it does not seal, being a few mm too short....

[PaulTubby]

The pipe on the radiator must be sat a little high.... I would suggest using a Austin 1100 1300 housing as that has a higher angle and will be more in line... I don't think this will last long as is as seems to be a lot of pressure on the hose and angle esp when running etc... here is a photo of taken of a Austin morris 1100 1300 one and this would solve the problem...

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Happy new year.

[Ufudu]

Excellent thanks.

You are correct, it is not right.

I have found the PO's top pipe and it has a pronounced kink in it, and is as hard as h@ll, so must have been placing quite a bit is strain on the joint.

But if the culprit remains the radiator I may take it in to a specialist to see what they can do....

In the meantime I will wait for Louise's photo's.....

Thanks again!

[philthehill]

The alignment between the thermostat housing and radiator was never perfect at the best of times and over the years I have seen several hoses were the difference in alignment caused the hose to fail but I cannot remember seeing an inlet pipe joint fail. All I can suggest is that you use as flexible/supple a hose for this application as you can find and which may not be genuine Minor. The hose you have fitted looks to be quite ridged and would not allow for very much misalignment. If you are going to have the top hose radiator inlet repaired why not have the pipe installed so as to give a better alignment. I know that it will not be standard but sometimes these things have to be done for better servicability. Sorry that I cannot be more helpful.

[Ufudu]

No worries, many thanks for everyone's help on what is a relatively trivial matter!

The new top hose is miles more flexible than the old one so there must be a major improvement already.

Erwin

[PaulTubby]

If you wanted the thermostat housing as i pictured if it gets you out of a pickle let me no...