unsatisfactory mechanic work - Any help appreciated

[bogusduke]

I am the owner of a 1955 Morris Minor Split Screen Series II

On the 14th November I had a brand new water pump fitted to my vehicle on the recommendation of the garage as they had told me it was leaking sufficiently due to erosion. (The previous second hand water pump had only been fitted for three months prior to this)
Two days after taking my vehicle away the water pump collapsed. I contacted the AA who took the vehicle back to the garage for me and was told by the garage that this was due to a faulty water pump and a consumerist problem that they would incur costs to.
I was told the work would be ready within four days but was not contacted until the 18th of December with all costs incurred to myself.

The garage informed me that the pulley boss on the front of the water pump was the problem and incurred me charges of £100.00 and £25.00 for the pulley boss.

At no point had i authorised the work to be done and no communication was made to myself to explain that the damage was not believed to be from the water pump.

Further more to this i have paid upto now in the region of £800.00 for work previous to the above at the same garage on their recommendation which i am now quering having lost faith in their workmanship. I originally took the vehicle in on the 6th of October and haven't drove it for two consecutive days due to numerous break downs and repairs since its original service (of which i had all work carried out that was recommended) Before its service with the garage the vehicle had no obvious faults and was a pleasure to drive

The garage is now holding my vehicle in 'lieu', i have had a very unsatisfactory experience with them and have made two written complaints but so far have had no luck in compromising the return of my vehicle. I am currently waiting for the AA report to come through to my postal address as supporting evidence to my case

If anyone could answer any of the following questions i would be very grateful:

Any mechanics willing to look over all of my invoices to determine that the work has been done at a standard costing

What rights to i have to my vehicle? they believe they are holding the vehicle in lieu but i did not authorise any of the work they are charging for.

Is it reasonable to believe that they are at fault to the damage of the water pump pulley boss and woodruff key if they fitted and carried out work to the vehicle two days previous? If so how do i prove they are liable

I am very upset about the situation i find myself in and would be ever grateful for any advice and help!

Thanks,
Kirsten

[Dean]

I would recommend you speak to a solicitor qualified in disputes of this kind.

Spending possibly £50-£100 for 30 minutes advice could be very valuable. Some offer the advice for free.

Citizens Advice could do the same for free, but, waiting lists and time could be an issue.

Other than that I would argue with them that they weren't given the authority to do work on your car and if they have no proof of your consent then at least that is one upmanship.

In terms of holding onto your car, I can't confirm it, but I think they do have rights to hold it in lieu of some kind.

£800 is a lot of money to spend on a car, to now have it not working and I hope it gets sorted soon on your terms.

[POMMReg]

Try Trading Standards

[bmcecosse]

Oh dear...you don't tell us where you are ? Better not 'name' the garage on here - but are they Morris Minor or 'classic car' specialists? On the face of it - it does sound as though you have been terribly overcharged - and very possibly work done to a poor standard. Can you list ALL the work they have done - and in as much detail as possible? Their next move may be to charge you £xx per day to 'store' the car....quite frankly it may be as well to pay up and recover the car - and then get to trading standards or citizens advice - or a solicitor. And - don't go back to the garage !!! Once we know where you are - there may be someone local willing to come and have a look at your car - and the invoices.

[lambrettalad]

Small claims court?

Every garage I use all ask for authorisation unto a limit ,then have to phone if it is going above.At the very least your garage is totally unprofessional ,and work vultures

[kennatt]

it would be interesting to know where they got a new pully boss from,because as far as I know they are unabtainable,I needed one and was informed by Tom Roys that S hand were the only ones and they sold me one for £5. I damaged mine by dropping the engine onto it(Dont Ask). I can't see how a boss could be damaged in normal use,they last the lifetime of the car surely.They are held by four studs ,no Wudruff key,the key is in the bottom pully,is this what they are talking about?
The bottom pullys on the ser11 do eventually break up,the two halves are just rivited together,and if they fail could I supose cause strain on the fan pully and pump,bottom pully about £35 just changed mine.

If they fitted the waterpump,and then the boss/pully and fan. And somewhow,Cant see how,its so simple a job,got it out of allignment. I supose it could cause the pump bearings and seal to fail,but not after two days, was it .A water pump is about £25,and I suppose £100 labour in a garage,is probably not too far off,with the high hourly rates these days.

I think I would just pay and ask for a full reciept showing exactly what has been replaced,do you have the reciept for the previous work. Then once with the car back take the lot down to your local trading standards,they just love this sort of investigation. A relation of mine works for them and he says they fall over backwards to get the job,because its usually very easy to prove the rip off/bad workmanship.

Once you have the car and documentation just as you drive away,simply inform them that thats what you are going to do.See what reaction you get

[bmcecosse]

And -despite our helpful answers - no update or list of work done from the original poster........

[bogusduke]

Thank You all for your advice.

I have spent today going round local mechanics and asking them to overlook the invoices and all have been appalled at the costings.
I am from the Wirral, Wallasey to be more specific. The garage was not a Morris Minor specialist and i went there on a recommendation to my regret. I would have had a lot more respect for them if they had been honest with me about their limitations.

To release the vehicle they are asking for a further £475 and so a total of near £1300.
BMC you are correct in saying that they are going to charge to 'store' the vehicle and so i do feel backed into a corner to pay them. They have also threatened to take the car apart of all its parts despite the hefty labour fees i have paid upto now.

For anyone interested in overlooking all of the invoices in more detail my email address is kirsten_39@hotmail.com

Apologies for delay in reply (i did not click notify when replies posted)

Ever grateful

Kirsten

[bogusduke]

Ps.

Kennet..

As i am yet to view the vehicle i cannot be sure with which parts of the water pump or surroundings they have changed if at all.
I intend to take the car straight to another mechanic for a full inspection.

If i find out the details of where they sourced a wood ruff key il be sure to pass them forward

Thanks

[Dean]

If you have to pay, pay by credit card. That way you are insured.

[bmcecosse]

Is this an 803 cc engine? The water pumps on these engines are 'not common' now, and therefore may be costly - but that is no excuse or reason to charge high labour costs. I still think you need to pay up - and remove the car immediately. Sickening I know - but they have you by the short and curlies............ Can we see a list of all the work claimed to have been carried out - and parts supplied?

[bogusduke]

Yes an 803cc

07/10/13
Full service £60.00 plus vat
oil filter £20.00 ' '
spark plugs £10.40 " "
mineral oil £18.99 " "
total £131.27

17/10/13
Labour £60.00
set of shoes £15.54
Wheel cylinder £40.45 all plus vat
total £151.19

At this point i was told no further work was needed, all parts in full working order.

26/10/13
Diagnostic (I suspected fault with dynamo)
£30.00
Was told no problems

My car stayed with them for three weeks

14/11/13
labour £200.00
rocker gasket £1.41
paper gaset £0.93 x2
oil seal £2.61 x2
o ring £2.53 x2
propshaft seal £4.00
ignition leads £13.94
heater hose £3.14
waterpump £99.00

carriage charge £13.50
total £420.32

(after waiting three weeks for a second hand water pump they told me they were not satisfied with quality of the two second hand water pumps they had received from supplier and highly recommended new one)

18/12/13

Labour to fit new water pump pulley boss and woodruff key £100.00
labour to fit master cylinder £125.00

water pump pulley boss £25.00
master cylinder £60.00
master cylinder plunger and yolke £19.25

carriage charge £8.95 x2

total £476.38
(non of which was authorised)

Further to this i have paid hire car fees to them

[Jefftav]

As others have said recover your car at the earliest opportunity take a friend with you who can verify any discussion points. Politely (don't rant) ask for a VAT invoice detailing all parts they have replaced and to collect the old parts. Also ask for their labour rate so you can work out if they have charged excesivelly but to be honest you have little say in their labour rate and whilst others might think it is excessive it is up to the garage owner what they charge.

Discuss the unauthorised work as you may find in their small print they have a limit thay can work up to before making contact. Also you may find they have made a genuine mistake with the mechanic assuming the service manager has made contact and authorised the work. Also lack of knowledge or experience has meant they have made a mistake and they will negotiate a wee bit, as generally any business does not want to send away an unhappy customer.

If you still feel the work done is excessive you will have to prove this which will cost you more money so it might be better to swallow your pride and learn a harsh lesson and look for another garage

[kennatt]

Well looking at the work,that has been done,if it has.Assuming labour at £60 per hour which it probably is in most garages,or not far off that,some charge considerably more. Then are they that far off the mark,for labour.
Set of shoes ,cylinder,brake bleeding.............Labour £60....1 hour give or take.
Electrical checkl " £30 1/2 hour
Water pump etc " £200 3 hours give or take looks high but depends what problems
they hit,would it take 3 hrs to do a water pump mmmmmm they probably decided to take rad out just incase so maybe.
Still don,t understand woodruff key and pully boss
Master cylinder labour £120 2 hours about right .not a straight forward job on a minor in fact they have probably done well to do it this quick.

All the rest of the charges are parts which look to be about the going rate,+ the vat.
The only question revolves round ................was the work authorised . and was the first waterpump work done to a satisfactory standard thereby removing the need for the second charges.
I know the total charge looks excessivly high but thats what you get when using garages to do the work,they all have high overheads. Thats why most moggie owners learn to DIY most jobs,its the only way to keep the costs down.
I'm sorry you have had all this trouble,and hope you resolve ,Then you can get on with enjoying the car,you may have a car thats now well sorted and last for many years.

As a comparison a friend of mine recently needed some work on a BMW which required the engine out his bill was £2.400 from the main dealer.
Good luck

[LouiseM]

I would agree with the previous poster that the costs charged for the parts and labour don't seem excessive.

I was told the work would be ready within four days but was not contacted until the 18th of December with all costs incurred to myself.

From what you have said, the car was returned to the garage by the AA, the garage advised the AA that the problem was due to a faulty water pump, then contacted you to advise that the work would be ready in 4 days. Did you tell them at that stage that you didn't want them to do any more work on the car, or contact them after the 4 days were up to find out what was going on? I'm probably missing something but am a bit confused as it isn't clear why you got a hire car from them if you hadn't authorised them to do any more work on the car

[bmcecosse]

Pretty much as above - the labour charges are terrifying - but you should have realised that after the first 'service'. They have charged you the FULL price for every item supplied - obviously they CAN be bought for much less if you know where to go. Some parts for the older 803 cars are high cost viz. water pump/filter/wheel cylinder - the filter is almost certainly not the correct one, and your car will be running now with low oil pressure. The oil cost is excessive - £10 buys 5 litres of the correct 20W50 oil. Changing a master cylinder is not a pleasant job - with all the brake bleeding etc that would involve - two hours is not excessive (although I find £60/hour excessive - others seem to find it acceptable). Did you really not know they were going to fit a new master cylinder?? But overall - you can argue about 'not authorised' work till the cows come home - you did have warning ages ago that they charged a fortune for labour, and at that point you should have looked elsewhere. I strongly advise you attempt to negotiate with them - very unlikely to be successful, I have to say, pay up - and remove the car. You can only really complain to Trading Standards etc if the work has been done badly - but if the work (possibly unauthorised) has been done correctly - then I'm afraid you are stuck with it. The key to Minor ownership is to Do It Yourself. It's rarely difficult - there is an excellent workshop manual (google for it online) and we are all here to offer advice and very possibly someone living near you will be willing to come round/offer advice/help you to get started doing the work. I too am confused why you hired a car from them - without keeping 'daily' tabs on when your own car would be ready. Try to sort it out today - so you can start the new year afresh!

[millerman]

B'duke, in what area of the UK do you live?

Small garage labour costs in the less wealthy areas are lower than £60 per hour but a well equipped garage workshop employing several people will be £60 per hour labour cost and certainly all main dealers will be £100 plus per hour.

Anyone know the labour charge for repairs in a large Minor dealer/repair shop?

Anyway best of luck, let us know how you get on

[bogusduke]

Louise
On returning the moggy to the garage after the water pump collapse they issued me a 'courtesy' car for a week on the premise I paid for the insurance. This was due to the lengthy time they had had my car previously.
On returning the vehicle they had informed me work carried out would be at the cost of the supplier as the parts were under warranty. This is why I was so shocked to be presented with a bill.

When querying the bill I was met with disdain and due to my experience and loss of trust in their workmanship I further wanted to query the rest of the bills I had paid.
Appreciate everyone's honest points.

I have had the vehicle since April (used to own a 67' ford Anglia) and I'm still learning about my car.
I guess it's safe to say it pays to know!

Thanks

[LouiseM]

That makes things a bit clearer, although a supplier would normally just replace a part that was still under warranty rather than pay for the labour charges to fit it. Where does the master cylinder replacement come in - when did that fail?

[bmcecosse]

Where did they get the NEW water pump for the 803 engine?