oil pressure relief valve

[philthehill]

Been there and done the Car and Car Conversion trip and got several of the Clive Tricky tuning manuals for the 'A' Series. Whilst you may be right about the beginning David Vizard took it to a whole new level.
Originally got most of my tuning tips in the early days from the American Hod Rod magazines that were available well before Tricky or Vizard. And now showing my age Tony Bostock, HOT ROD section, Car Mechanics 1959.
Anyway we digress from the subject in hand.
After all the above discussion I will try and procure a crows foot socket of suitable size (26mm AF should be perfect) that will allow me to undo the oil pressure relief valve cover on my A + engine without damaging my knuckles and which may also allow me to unscrew the valve cover without removing the starter motor bolts.

[bmcecosse]

Hahahaha - Tony Bostock was a right chancer!

[philthehill]

bmc
My inclusion of Tony Bostock was to indicate that tuning is as old as the car itself and is not the domain of any one person just general developments and improvements on previous ideas and designs and which is excellently played out in the 'A' series!
So as you do not have to get dirty when looking for your A + block I have attached some photos of a 1275cc block ex midget and of the oil pressure relief valve on my A+ engine.
The second one is of the 1275cc and you can see how open it is around the oil pressure relief valve.
The first one is the A + block ex Marina and it shows how tight everything is around the oil pressure relief valve even discounting the oil pressure switch and the oil pressure gauge take off pipe; and you can just see the oil filter extrusion to the block above the oil pressure relief valve.[frame][/frame][frame][/frame]

[bmcecosse]

I remember T Bostock alright.......and I realise why you mention him . Assuming the T piece is twisted out of the way - I don't see any great problem getting a socket on the relief valve nut - possibly need a U/J on the socket drive. Perhaps the OP has the starter bolt in wrong way round - with extended shank and nut in the way?

[PaulTubby]

I have found you have to remove the starter motor, there is no way you can get the socket on with the starter there...

[bmcecosse]

It really doesn't look any different to the Spridget location - to me anyway, from these pics.

[smithskids]

I have just had my L.O.P.relief valve out for inspection as I had a lower oil press. than normal at idle and have an old 9/19W tube spanner that fits ok. Its long enough (7") to get a bacho on the end to undo it.MG 1275 eng.

[alexmcguffie]

There's an easy formula to work this out...:-

Divide the time spent looking for 'the golden socket' + time spent on forums by the 10 minutes it takes to remove/fit the starter motor and the answer is the number of springs you could have fitted

[philthehill]

smithskids
Good idea but no good on the A+.
I have just tried a Melco tube spanner on the cover and the starter motor flanges/bolts get in the way.

Alex
That is what retirement is all about spending 10 minutes here and 10 minutes there and it keeps the mind active. Now what was I doing ah yes forgotten already.

[glaughton]

bmc - my starter motor bolt is the same way round as in Phil's photo - it's the starter flange that also gets in the way.

Good point Alex - but research is enjoyable! Anyway I think I might put your formula to the test ... but hang on, what about that Draper edge-driven socket I spotted yesterday ...!
Thanks to everyone for your help - I now know I wasn't missing anything simple.

[philthehill]

I believe that I have a solution to the problem of removing the oil pressure relief valve cover with the starter motor still in place
I have manufactured a special socket. I will still have to remove the starter motor top bolt though.
What I have done is take a 26mm 1/2" drive socket with a reduced shank. Then reduced the internal depth of the socket so that it just covers the relief valve cover. I then reduced the wall of the socket to enable it to fit between the relief valve cover and the engine back plate. I then reduced the reduced shank as much as possible so as to clear the starter motor flange. I then got a 10mm x 1/4" drive socket put four flats on it so as to enable it to be fitted into the 1/2" socket and then brazed it in place. Finally not forgetting to re-temper the whole socket.
I would have been happier and it may have been easier with a 26mm x 3/8" drive reduced shank socket but I used what I had spare and the main thing is that it fits past the top starter flange I may try and find a 26mm x 3/8" drive reduced shank socket and repeat the process. At least with the 3/8" I would not have to braze a socket into the end of the 1/2" socket. If the 1/4" drive is not man enough for the job I can always un-braze and fit a 3/8" drive socket.
At least it give some idea how you can overcome the problem
[frame][/frame][frame][/frame]

[katy]

Can you not use a 1" AF straight crowfoot?[frame][/frame]

[philthehill]

Katy
In earlier post I have mentioned using a crows foot socket but a double hexagon would be even better.
Here in the UK the price of such a crows foot spanner puts me off as they are about £40 + plus vat at 20% and I would get very little use out of it.
To replace the sockets that I have butchered will only cost me £10 (Edit:- now replaced at £3.99 total and good quality too) to replace and of course my time comes free.
One of the joys of retirement.

[millerman]

At the end of a long day is it not easier AND quicker to remove the starter motor so that it is easy to get a socket on the oil pressure relief valve cap

[les]

I make you right millerman, making or buying special tools for a job done once in a blue moon, does seem OTT. Especially as there is a solution. Even I can remove a starter motor in 5 minutes!

[philthehill]

Les/millerman
I quite agree with you under normal circumstances but for glaughton this may be a repeat job to get the length/tension of the oil pressure relief spring correct if he sticks with the ball bearing.
Anyway I wanted to see if it could be done without taking the starter motor out and that bottom bolt is a bind if you have to do it more than once.

[les]

I see where you're coming from, it just struck me that in the end it might be quicker, even if done a couple of times. Bottom bolt would be the only hassle but fair enough it's nice to explore the other possibilities.

[bmcecosse]

My original answers were based on it being a Minor engine ..(it is after all a Minor forum) ...there does seem to be some doubt then about the positioning of the relief valve on a Marina engine. But It doesn't look too bad in the pictures! The weather up here is too bad for me to investigate my 1275 blocks at the moment. Just leave the bottom bolt out until sure all is well if you do decide to remove the starter - I hardly ever fitted it, and the starter works fine as long as the top bolt is done up tight.

[glaughton]

bmc - good tip about leaving the bottom bolt temporarily removed - the less crawling under the car the better!

Phil - that's very inventive and looks perfect. You obviously have too much time on your hands in retirement!

If I can beg, borrow, buy or loan it then perhaps let me know via PM - it obviously needs to be put to good use!

[philthehill]

glaughton
PM sent.
Decided to do the test early!!!
I have just used the adapted socket on an oil pressure release valve cover which was tightened several times to within a degree of stripping the threads with a large 9/16" W ring spanner and the adapted socket undid the cover every time even with the 1/4" drive so I now know it is strong enough. Your cover has been off so we know it is not seized or tight with oil carbon etc.
I cannot use it on my A+ engine as I have an extra plate between the starter and engine back plate (see photo) but with a standard configuration it will go past the starter flange. With the 26mm socket there is a bit of flexibility to articulate off centre as well.
PM me your details and I will post it to you.
Phil