Alternative use of Minor engine

[liammonty]

This old 1098 is serving out its retirement as a donkey engine for the 30 litre ex-marine diesel you see here on this traction engine conversion. When it's revving flat-out it just manages to turn the diesel over enough to start![frame][/frame][frame][/frame]

[bmcecosse]

Excellent! What is the drive connection to the diesel? And how is it disconnected from the diesel when it starts....

[liammonty]

I'm afraid to say I didn't get time to check it over thoroughly - I had to clamber on to a trailer parked next to it so I was high enough to get some decent shots but couldn't get on to the engine itself. Here's another picture showing the end of the engine that's connected to the diesel. unfortunately, the drive is hidden by what must be the only safety guard on the entire thing!!![frame][/frame]

[JOWETTJAVELIN]

Very interesting! Though I can't see the poor 1098 lasting for long if it needs revving flat out.

[jagnut66]

Hi,
What's the traction engine used for?
Best wishes,
Mike.

[liammonty]

It was at a vintage ploughing match here, where an engine at each end of the field pulls the plough from one to the other on a huge cable. You can see a plough in the second picture.

[philthehill]

Seeing the photographs of the traction engine fitted with the diesel engine/Minor engine reminds me of the traction engines (and other early heavy tractors) fitted with diesel/petrol engines stored in Binton Station yard in the late 1950s early 1960s. These engine conversions were developed and used by Bomford and Evershed (later Bomford & Carr) for dredging lakes/ponds etc as there was nothing comparable for use in dredging; the winding drum being most useful for the length of cable required when dragging the dredging scoop backwards and forwards across the lake. The traction engine photographed above may be one of those engines over which I clambered back in the early 1960s when living just outside Mickleton which is not to far from Binton and again not to far from Banbury.
See http://www.steamploughclub.org.uk/ for more details.
I believe the event attended was the steam ploughing match at Fenny Compton on the 14th/15th September 2013 and is featured on the steam plough club website and gives details of the converted traction engines see http://www.steamploughclub.org.uk/chall ... pants.html

As an aside where I worked many years ago there was a WW2 Caterpillar D8 crawler and that had a separate donkey engine (I believe it was an Austin 7) for starting and that only just managed to turn the main engine over if you were lucky. The drive from the donkey engine to the flywheel on the D8 was via a clutch that had to be held IN to drive the main engine as soon as the main engine fired up the clutch could be released and the main engine could be run without the donkey engine which could be then shut down. If the main engine did not want to play ball the clutch used to smoke through slippage. I suspect that the drive between the Minor engine and the main engine would be similar.

[liammonty]

That's very interesting. You're quite right about it being the event at Fenny Compton, so the info you posted the link to is right. The engine is a Fowler, originally fromLeeds, and McLaren, the company that converted it (possibly in the 60s) was also based in Leeds. It's interesting to hear about the likely way the donkey engine is connected, as unfortunately the traction engine has gone now, so I can't have another look!

[jagnut66]

It was at a vintage ploughing match here, where an engine at each end of the field pulls the plough from one to the other on a huge cable. You can see a plough in the second picture.

Interesting. I've seen film of the earlier Steam powered version of this in action. Very innovative.

[MarkyB]

I've been searching for video of this engine starting with no luck.
Loads of others though, this is a Fowler and relatively easy;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJpZfp0Ss2U

The Atlas 3 Cylinder Diesel 1927 Tug Boat Engine is a right performance!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LJ-Eb6hFKM

Cant find any ploughing with big diesels, just tractors or steam engines.

[philthehill]

The story that I was told when at the Binton site was that when the steam plough boilers were shot the frame, drive gears and winch gears etc were found to still have plenty of life left in them. For the type of work undertaken by the steam plough winch i.e. lake dredging there were no alternatives either and a drag line scoop can only be thrown so far; so it was decided to find an alternative power source to replace the steam unit and so the boiler and operating cylinder were removed and a petrol or diesel installed in its place. Some of the early conversions had WD surplus Centurion tank engines fitted. The dredge was a large wooden box that was dragged by the winches backwards and forwards across the bed of the lake collecting the mud which was then spread by a bulldozer on the surrounding land.
Tom Rolt founder of the VSCC, IWA and the Talyllyn Railway wrote a very good book titled 'Landscape With Machines' ISBN: 0 86299 140 4 about his early days with steam and especially his involvement with steam engines and steam ploughing at Pitchhill (1926-1927) which is not too far from Binton. The book is a very good read and I can recommend it to all those interested in all things mechanical.
On the 13th October there will be a steam traction engine road run from Andover around the local villages and this morning I have been asked by a friend if I would like to ride the event on his 'Taskers Of Andover' steam road engine which means I will be up close to the action. I have never been on a moving traction engine before so it will be a new experience for me; so cannot wait.

[Matt]

I've been on the back of a Sentinal (this summer in fact), but I suspect a traction engine is a somewhat different experience!

This one in fact



Its me in the back (in black)

[LouiseM]

I have never been on a moving traction engine before so it will be a new experience for me; so cannot wait.

Be prepared for a bumpy ride so hold on tight and don't wear anything that you don't mind getting filthy

[Matt]

and don't wear anything

Thats filthy

[bmcecosse]

Let's have some pictures Phil!

[philthehill]

Report and pictures as requested by bmc.
Well the Andover steam engine road run was well worth getting drenched for. I turned up at the yard and was met by the sight of approximately 24 traction engines, rollers and portable engines. I must add not all in working order but what a sight. Just to keep you interested there was also a green Morris Minor in the car park.
Liammonty - one of the ploughing engines John Fowler 10hp K7 No: 16646 'JACK OF HERTS' which was at the Fenny Compton ploughing match was parked up and having its tubes pulled through. Its ploughing team got second place for their efforts.
LouiseM - yes you were right to warm me of the rough ride and the dirt (but you did not mention the din of clashing gears etc still ringing in my ears). I still cannot get the black out of my hands no matter how hard I try!
We were first off and it rained all the way round (approx 12 miles) my right leg inside the frame was dry but my left leg and boot outside of the frame was totally wet through. We stopped a couple of times to get up steam pressure before attempting some of the long hills and once to pick up water from a roadside stream. My wife was on a trailer behind another traction engine and even though she got thoroughly soaked she enjoyed the ride. Arrived back at the yard without incident but cold and wet but what an adventure and parked next to Malcolm's steam roller. Thank you Malcolm for asking me to accompany you on the run. Malcolm also has a 1930s Morris 12 and a Cowley which was at the national he also has 1940s Morris semi forward control commercial. Some of you may recognise his roller as the one that ran down the tents in a DADS ARMY episode[frame][/frame]

[philthehill]

Another photo - Malcolm on the footplate getting steam up and me wrapped up well against the elements and doing my Fred Dibnah impersonation flat cap and all.[frame][/frame]

[philthehill]

another photo - stopped to clear the injectors.[frame][/frame]

[philthehill]

another photo - Picking up water at Longparish Well.[frame][/frame]

[philthehill]

Another photo - The engine 'PRIDE OF ANNA VALLEY'. Built in 1914 by Taskers Of Andover. Used for hauling timber in WW1 then converted to a road roller and eventually converted back to a road tractor.[frame][/frame]