Replacing Series MM Side Valve fan belt

[gtt1951]

Even more problems - slackened off the three Dynamo bolts, pushed the dynamo down to create a slck belt and couldn't get the belt off as there was insufficient room between the water pump mounted fan blades and the radiator core![frame][/frame]Cutting off the old belt would have removed that, but would not have helped me in fitting the replacement.
The rad had to come out - this it it already back flushed. The tap wouldn't work to drain (does now)[frame][/frame]and I had to make a small gap in the bottom hose attachement for a "controlled" slow drain[frame][/frame]Time to fit the new belt [frame][/frame]Its too LONG, by 5.2cm compared with the old frayed (and stretched) John Bull one[frame][/frame]Went down to the big CAF place down the road, on the off chance they might have something suitable - no such luck. Bang goes the planned "spend Saturday to get the little black car back on the road". I've emailed the belt supplier, as they close their Parts Department at 12:00 on Saturdays and I only discovered the problem at 12:40.
You can see, from the photo of the oversized belt, that I have the option of fitting the fan blades like they are, or back onto the Dynamo.
Would putting the blades on the Dynamo give me enough room for future belt changes, without having to remove the rad?

George.

[TvdWerf]

When you have the right one, I am very interested to the type.
Is it an A or a B model?
And what is the real length?

I have also both options, the blades on the dynamo, or the waterpump, because I have both engines ;)

[smithskids]

If you put the blades on the dynamo you will chop the bottom out of the header tank!!

[gtt1951]

If you put the blades on the dynamo you will chop the bottom out of the header tank!!

It looks like the pump and dynamo centres are on the same horizontal line (with the dynamo in it top-most position).
I'll do some measurements - I'm not going to be putting anything back until I get a correct fan belt

[TvdWerf]

But my dynamo has blades
with my spare engine, the waterpump came with also a pair of blades, and because of the heater, I like the standard waterpump.
Or should I use the aftermarket Smitss waterpump?[frame][/frame][frame][/frame]

This is my engine without waterpump, but with dynamo and blades:[frame][/frame]

And this is the other one, with waterpump and blades:[frame][/frame]

[gtt1951]

When you have the right one, I am very interested to the type.
Is it an A or a B model?
And what is the real length?

I have also both options, the blades on the dynamo, or the waterpump, because I have both engines ;)

Hello TvD,
You would need belts that are less than 93cm external circumference as the 93 is a little bit slack. The belt with no water pump would have to be quite a bit smaller.
As soon as I find out what sizes are required, I'll let you know.
Regards, George.

[mike.perry]

The correct belt for a water pump engine is a B33.
The full conversion should have a new set of fan blades to fit the water pump. Note these blades are shorter than the dynamo blades and have a different PCD so are not interchangeable, but there is no reason why you should not leave the dynamo fan blades on which will give you a little more finger room around the water pump pulley, however a new belt will be less flexible than the old belt so you may still have trouble around the centre nut on the pump. Releasing the four rad bolts may give you enough room.
There is a short bottom hose to fit between the rad and brass pipe and there should be a block drain tap to replace the bottom hose block elbow

[TvdWerf]

I remember from early times, one of my colleagues always started with cutting the old belt when he has to change him from a morris. He was grown up with the Morris, so he was the man for the dirty jobs ;)

[gtt1951]

The correct belt for a water pump engine is a B33.
The full conversion should have a new set of fan blades to fit the water pump. Note these blades are shorter than the dynamo blades and have a different PCD so are not interchangeable, but there is no reason why you should not leave the dynamo fan blades on which will give you a little more finger room around the water pump pulley, however a new belt will be less flexible than the old belt so you may still have trouble around the centre nut on the pump. Releasing the four rad bolts may give you enough room.
There is a short bottom hose to fit between the rad and brass pipe and there should be a block drain tap to replace the bottom hose block elbow

Mike, I got mine from ESM (mail order) and the ID on the belt is B 960/B 36. The "960" may well be the internal circumference in millimetres. I've just been and measured it (with difficulty) and I make it (approx) 955mm internal.
Getting the wrong belt shipped has meant that I have now run out of weekends to sort out the Series MM saloon before the Traveller weekend (holidays also in the way). I was going to attend my local branch meeting, on Monday evening, in the side-valve - not now.
It beggars the question "What does my B36 belt actually fit and who does supply the correct ones?
Regards, George.

[TvdWerf]

You can find a B33 belt on "each streetcorner", but I know the international supplier Kramp.com has all the possible belts.
And when you want to have belts, bolts and nuts for the Morris, in our country the Massey Ferguson dealers has a lot.
Our company is using a lot of different belts in machines, so i can order him in a standard batch.

[mike.perry]

Try your local bearing stockist, a machine belt may fit. I use a neoprene T link belt which I make up to the correct length. A bit expensive at £120 a 5 mtr box but it lasts almost for ever and is flexible enough to fit around the water pump

[gtt1951]

I've just ordered 2 x B33 belts from the "Bearing Boys" - doesn't help me for this weekend however.

[TvdWerf]

No technical shops opened in the UK in the weekend?
I know from California US, there is always a shop opened somewhere, also on Sunday...
Last year October, I had a broken chain, and could buy new chain parts there in a local bearing shop ;)
And the bigger farmer shops, always have an emergency phone number for parts.
A few years ago a farmer in my street had problems with a sensor from the milking robot on a Sunday afternoon, I found out which one it was, and he could get him from the service department.

When there are troubles, the solution is always there ;)

[gtt1951]

No technical shops opened in the UK in the weekend?
I know from California US, there is always a shop opened somewhere, also on Sunday...
Last year October, I had a broken chain, and could buy new chain parts there in a local bearing shop ;)
And the bigger farmer shops, always have an emergency phone number for parts.
A few years ago a farmer in my street had problems with a sensor from the milking robot on a Sunday afternoon, I found out which one it was, and he could get him from the service department.

When there are troubles, the solution is always there ;)

Sadly, the outlets that were open didn't have anything for a car of this age (1951). We'll see what the "Bearing Boys" belts look like.

[MarkyB]

Better to find out how many mm the belt needs to be and ask for that.
A pair of tights or an emergency fan belt should do at a pinch, did the car come with a water pump from the factory?

[gtt1951]

Better to find out how many mm the belt needs to be and ask for that.
A pair of tights or an emergency fan belt should do at a pinch, did the car come with a water pump from the factory?

What I know of the history of the car, the engine is a factory replacement and it did come with a water pump. The dynamo may well have been left over from the original non-pump configuration.

[mike.perry]

If you are still stuck then MMOC Club Spares should have one

[gtt1951]

Well I got my B33 belts from the Bearing Boys. Belt fitted, but was a bit tight going over the deep flanged pulley. The following pictures are with the rad removed. First the three pulleys with no belt fitted[frame][/frame]
Then the B36 belt on (can't adjust away the extra slack)[frame][/frame]Now with the B33 belt[frame][/frame]Looks like a B34 belt may have been better but, apart from Mike's answer, have not had any other responses about belt sizes.
TvD - try a B34 belt on your engine the "B" refers to the profile.
B is a V profile belt with an outer top flat width of 17mm (21/32") and a depth of 11mm (7/16"). Data on these belts can be found at
http://www.bearingboys.co.uk/search.cgi ... search=b33

Regards to all, George.

[MarkyB]

What is the problem with the B33?
Do you have to leave a bolt out for it to fit?

[gtt1951]

What is the problem with the B33?
Do you have to leave a bolt out for it to fit?

It is a bit short and requires shoe-horning over a pully flange with a flat-bladed screwdriver. Once inside the pulley flanges, it is fine and then the dynamo can be pulled up to tension the belt. So - my guess is that a B34 would allow you to get the belt on without any struggle, and then still have enough adjustment on the lower bracket to tension the belt correctly.