locked

[les]

I can suppose I can live with the thread being locked on the £10,000 pickup post but how does the deleted link to the ebay ad breach the T&cs?

[bmcecosse]

I missed all the fun - some very witty comments there too. Here's the link http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MORRIS-MINI-M ... 2ec9d7416c Now remember all - no criticism of this lovely machine, which must easily be worth at least twice the starting price........ I understand you are all 'waiting till the last minute' to place bids - but I will beat you all, because I always bid in the last few seconds...

[irmscher]

Freedom of speech comes to mind

[irmscher]

When were the MMOC rules written 1066 the club has a real draconian attitude

[Matt]

I can either delete the link or the whole thread...

By leaving the link there is a reference to the item & person being critisised (sp?) - by removing this the link has gone.

We are going to be having a push on the negative critisim - the T&Cs clearly state

You agree not to negatively criticise any individual, organisation, product or service.

This is because of previous threats of legal action against the MMOC.

So please don't post negative threads - they will normally be removed.

[irmscher]

Matt When products are shoddy ill fitting etc members should be aware and not get ripped off with inferior bits and services .I am a member of quite a lot of forums as you know and if something is wrong all other forums allow freedom of speech and this is not in any shape or form allowed on the mmoc and restrains there rights as individuals .I hear it all the time about legal action being threatened against the club but everyone knows who it was but they still have one of the biggest adverts in Minor matters!.The product and service rule is pathetic and leaves members not knowing of bad products and rip off dealers and sellers and imho opinion doesn't help members but lets them fall prey to these pit falls and that cant be a good thing for members .I would like to know how others feel about this ruling and intend to voice my opinion as a fully paid up member at the AGM .

[Matt]

I have to say... I agree with you with regards to highlighting shoddy parts and poor service, but everyone here has signed up to the T&Cs and everyone should be abiding with them. As you say there are other forums where complaints are made about poor parts and service, but they are not normally an "official" forum of a business/club/association etc. In 99% of cases it would not be practical/possible to prove the allegation - there are always 2 sides to every story. Personally I do warn people about poor quality parts/service but not publically on this forum.

Incidently its not just one company that has threatened legal action - we have had a number of compaints & threats of action from various people over the years.

[irmscher]

I agree Matt but the rules need changing to accommodate members requests and give them help as other forums clubs etc don't have this attitude of being over the top pc . the club is not official in a sense coming in direct association with Morris & Nuffield and not owning the Morris name.The easy way around this is to waver all responsibility by issuing a disclaimer that the views are from the individual contributor and not the club

[moggyman64]

I agree 100% with Irmscher, I have previously highlighted poor quality services on this site only to have them removed. Your reference to the MMOC being draconian is spot on, imho the club has and continues to fail to keep up with the changes which are happening within the circles of our cars and members.

Every time a sensible and informative thread highlighting poor standards is posted which I might add is done with the best intention of the poster to help other members of the club, the only acknowledgment it receives it for the club to delete it as opposed to giving a pat on the back for reporting the problem.

The most annoying part of all this is that the moderators know that the content of these informative posts are true, instead of doing something positive like dealing with the criticisms made or talking to the traders concerned which would require a positive action, they simply do the negative thing which needs no action except to delete posts and quote T&Cs. The moderators need to realise that the traders who get some criticism on here are making a living from our members and should tolerate and welcome negative feedback to better their service. To keep quoting that the club could be sued is ridiculous and taking things to the extreme.

Moderators you should do the right thing by your members and review the said T&Cs before you loose more members to a forum on the other side where free speech and honesty is encouraged. I know where I go to read and post honest comments without fear of moderator intervention.

Regards

keith

[Matt]

Keith

I agree with a large amount of what you say... but the Moderators are not causing problems. We don't run the website, or have any say over the T&Cs. You (and everyone else who posts here) have signed up to the T&Cs. I agree that they definately need reviewing and updating where required - that is not a moderator descision, its a committee one and would need to be discussed at AGM. I you arn't happy with the T&Cs - I suggest writing to the Derby office and formally request for the issues to be placed on the adgenda for the AGM. I shall be doing just that (with regards to a different website issue) and suggest others do the same.

instead of doing something positive like dealing with the criticisms made or talking to the traders concerned which would require a positive action, they simply do the negative thing which needs no action except to delete posts and quote T&Cs.

Don't knock the moderators - we have super powers . Seriously, all the moderators can do is enforce the rules, we have no influence on their creation, any direct line to the committee or any special status. We are ordinary members who spend a bit of time trying to keep the peace (and get moaned at because people don't like the rules). We are not paid (we still pay the full subs) and we all have full time jobs and other commitments too - why don't you record it all and talk to the traders? They will listen to you just as much as me...

As for recording everything thats detailed here... how much free time do you think we have?
Personally... I have my full time job (away from home) + ~20hrs/week commuting, volunteer at a steam railway, have my projects, just completed a part time degree (whilst in employment), moderate this site and am actively involved with other clubs/forums too (e.g. I have just spent the bank holiday weekend running a "technical" tent at another vehicle club event - giving people advice and doing fixes on peoples vehicles). At the moment I sneak on here when no one is looking at Work... thats all the time I really have on here (and thats because work is quiet at the moment). To give you an idea... I average less than 1 night a week in my own bed because of the time I spend away from home.

You can report sub standard parts and poor customer service to the club (not sure who off hand) and they do collect the information. The more people who do it - the more chance the club will be able to contact the trader in question and sort out the problem. I agree - there are a lot of poor parts out there, and something needs to be done, but its not something for the moderators to do when there is someone already in existance.

The most annoying part of all this is that the moderators know that the content of these informative posts are true

I'm not going to dispute that the vast majority are the truth.

Its not necessairly just "freedom of speech" which is making people go elsewhere. They are plenty of people who have left (especially recently) because they feel they are being un-duly critisised. (Im not just talking about events of this week - its been happening for months). We get posts reported by well meaning members on a frequent basis. We very rarely get them pointing out someone has named someone for supplying defective goods.

Irmscher

I would suggest writing to the committee in Derby and formally request that the T&Cs and their failings are placed on the adgenda of the next AGM.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________

I would like to think I am approachable - so please feel free to PM me about anything you arn't happy about. I have no more influence over the club than anyone else though!

Matt

[mike.perry]

Please note that there is a fine line between constructive criticism and personal abuse and some posts stray the wrong side of that line. An amicable solution can usually be reached by first dealing politely with the person or company involved

[jagnut66]

I know where I go to read and post honest comments without fear of moderator intervention.

Regards

keith
moggyman64

Hi Keith,
Can you post a link up for this site on here then, for those of us who don't know where / what it is. Ta.
Best wishes,
Mike.

[Matt]

He is referring to other forums - the most popular one being http://morrisminorowners.co.uk/

[jagnut66]

Hi Matt,
Thanks for that. It would be good to know what / who is best avoided when looking for parts.

As to the £10,000 Minor pickup, I've just looked at it and I laughed so hard I split my sides..................... the advert was meant as a joke, wasn't it.......????

Best wishes,
Mike.

[bmcecosse]

My comments on the matter - which were trapped on the other 'locked' thread - could you not have merged them Matt?
I missed all the fun - some very witty comments there too. Here's the link
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MORRIS-MINI-M ... 2ec9d7416c
Now remember all - no criticism of this lovely machine, which must easily be worth at least twice the starting price........ I understand you are all 'waiting till the last minute' to place bids - but I will beat you all, because I always bid in the last few seconds...

[POMMReg]

Freedom of speech comes to mind

Remember Dr.David Kelly, there's a limit to this Country's tolerance of 'freedom of speech'!

[jagnut66]

Remember Dr.David Kelly, there's a limit to this Country's tolerance of 'freedom of speech'!

Another of Tony Blairs victims, now there's someone who makes a good case for bringing back hanging......
oh, sorry..... that wasn't very PC of me.......

[Matt]

I did try to merge the threads BMC... I think there may be a glitch because I couldn't get it to work. .. Maybe I am just thick!


I won't be bidding on the pickup

[PaulTubby]

This thread is way so serious... the club forum should all be fun.... isn't fun on here these days

[moggyman64]

the club forum should all be fun....

Can somebody please look up the meaning of "fun" in the dictionary, I bet it doesn't say MMOC.

Yes Paul this thread is serious because IMHO the committee tends to favour not upsetting various traders rather than support its very important members, no members - no committee - no club, therefore down the job centre for the people who draw a salary from our membership fees.

Matt my comments were by no means a dig directly at you, but since you agree with the majority of what I said, then maybe if the moderators don't agree with certain T&Cs that they are enforcing then a word in the ear of the committee would be the way forward.
I am sure that the work the moderators do is appreciated by all on here, but surely if you are not happy with what you told to enforce and Matt based on the time and effort you are giving to the club you should ask yourself if your efforts are worth while and for the greater good of the club.
If you and the other moderators are kind enough to donate your precious time to run the forum on behalf of the committee then they should allow you to use your discretion and not be under the control of antiquated T&Cs.

Regards

Keith