Clutch & Gearbox replacement project - nearly done

[gtt1951]

After my trials and tribulations on the International Rally Weekend (not as bad as David's broken half-shaft), I realised I also needed a clutch replacement. As the gearbox was a bit whiney, I've decided to replace both at the same time - by dropping the box out from under the car.
When I bought my Moggy, it came with a spare gearbox (ribbed case) and some of you may remember pictures of it during Christmas, on another thread (see image below)[frame][/frame]
It is a partial "Gold Seal" unit that was left to air corrosion by the previous owner who never got around to doing any of the mechanical works
I've cleaned up the outside of the case - remote section still needs a clean-up, cordless drill with wire brush ran out of power[frame][/frame]
and then started opening it up to see if any work needs to be done inside. I've had a pleasant surprise! The box has been drained of oil, but it looks like the original "gold seal" packing grease is still in place and that the box was never fitted after refurb[frame][/frame]
The rusted clutch fork cleaned up very well[frame][/frame]
Do I assume that all of the "gold" items are good to go and fit as is?

[Tom and Maria]

I guess the best way to find out is to fit it and see.

I'd recommend moving the engine forward a few inches to make refitting easier.

Good luck,

Tom

[jagnut66]

Hi,
Based on what you've said / shown on here I'd say fit it, replenish the oil and take it on a few local runs. If all is well then it is time for a mug of tea and a big grin!!

At this point Moderators I note there is no icon on here representing a 'steaming mug of tea', given it's an essential item for the home mechanic, I do think this is a bit of an oversight on someone's part when setting this site up!!

Best wishes and fingers crossed for you!
Mike.

[welshrat]

I guess the best way to find out is to fit it and see.

I'd recommend moving the engine forward a few inches to make refitting easier.

Good luck,

Tom

How does this help Tom? I have swapped a few boxes and clutches over the years by just removing the prop, dropping the box, then fitting the new bits and putting it back together.

[gtt1951]

Spare gearbox now put back together. I fitted a spare gearstick and ran through the selection process - all seems OK.[frame][/frame]
I filled the gearbox with SAE 30 oil and then ran the main input shaft from my electric drill. Tried all 4 forward and 1 reverse gears. All sounds nice and quite with no whine or rumble.[frame][/frame]
Now with the drill motor running[frame][/frame][frame][/frame]
I left it overnight and checked this morning for any tail seal leaks - there is a very slight oil leak, which can just be seen in the next picture[frame][/frame]
Is this anything to worry about or should I just bite the bullet and replace the seal?
How difficult is it to take off?
Regards, George.
P.S. there are no visible leaks anywhere else.

[philthehill]

If you ran the gearbox without the prop shaft inserted into the end of the gearbox which you appear to have done from the photographs provided - it will leak. The seal runs on the front of the prop shaft. So I would suggest there is nothing to worry about! I kept a spare front prop shaft piece to insert into the rear of the gearbox to alleviate any possibility of leaking and the intrusion of dirt when the gearbox was left for some time.

[gtt1951]

Thanks Phil, saves me a short detour to Moss (Europe) on my way home from work to the M3 (Hampton area, West London).
Just have to wait for the ramps to arrive and then the fun will start.

[gtt1951]

Well I made a start this morning and got the car up on the 2 new ramps I bought[frame][/frame]Chocked the back wheels (both behind and in front) and got to work inside. Out with the carpets and unscrewing the brass retaining machine screws[frame][/frame]
Most of the cross-heads have been knackered already and I think I'd best replace them all. Some were missing and at least one is sheared off and still in the support bracket (appologies for the poor mobile phone pics)[frame][/frame][frame][/frame]Cover now removed[frame][/frame]Should the fuel pipe be going up and over the gearbox support cross member like this?[frame][/frame]
You can see in the previous picture, that the brake hydraulic pipe does the same.
Speedometer cable disconnected[frame][/frame]followed by the earth strap[frame][/frame]
Then started taking the prop-shaft off. It was tough going and then I re-read the instructions "leave car in gear"! Had to put the gearstick back in and selected reverse - this made the job a bit easier but the fact that I couldn't get a ring spanner onto either the bolt heads or the lock nuts, meant that I had to struggle with 2 open ended adjustable spanners. The head size was 1/4" Whitworth and having belatedly looked into the spanner holding for my Myford lathe, the remaining bolts came out a bit better with 2 open ended 1/4 Whitworth iron spanners.[frame][/frame]Then I remembered I hadn't drained the gearbox! It was whilst I was struggling to get the drain plug out that the propshaft dropped off the flange (pic above) and, of course, disconnected itself from the back of the gearbox (still full of oil) and the inevitable oil escape happened. I had to use the rod device from my socket set, with a length of pipe slipped over the end to get sufficient torque on the drain plug to get it loose.
Whilst that was draining off, I removed the rear engine steady (which only had 2 of the 3 gearbox bolts fitted).
By this time I had had enough and needed a shower and a rest ( the "rest" has taken the form of typing up this article).
Oh - I forgot to mention that I had also worked under the bonnet to disconnect the exhaust pipe (held over with a reusable cable-tie)[frame][/frame] and on the other side (after draining coolant, disconnected the brass heater tap, top engine steady, removed Dizzy cap and disconnected the starter motor cable, oil pressure sender wire and placed a protective glove over the "open" dizzy"[frame][/frame]Now for a well deserved alcoholic drink! (I've had my shower before starting to type. Time now = 17:30hrs.
George.

[DAVIDMCCULLOUGH]

Good work George!

Yes the petrol pipe does run over the top to keep it out of the way, probably incase someone jacked it up under the cross member and squashed the pipe. When you refit the engine steady bar the bracket should be facing the other way and the bar will sit at a better angle.

[gtt1951]

David, I don't see what other orientation the "head" bracket can sit at as the rocker cover won't allow it to be turned through 180 deg.
Something else I forgot to mention - isn't it always the case that whilst you are spread-eagled under a propped car and you get a fluid leak, that the wind whips up and blows all the leaking fluid into your face, hair (what's left of it) and all over your overalls! When the car is back on its wheels, I'll have to get some special cleaning fluids to purge my drive of oil, petrol and other stains. And there was I thinking that the project will be quite simple

[bmcecosse]

The stains never come out the drive - Mrs BMC confirms that to me daily........ Your steady bracket is correct as you have it......

[DAVIDMCCULLOUGH]

No the L part of the bracket that bolts to the block is upside down. This causes the bar to sit a strange angle and over time that is why the bit breaks off the bulkhead.

I dont have a pic handy but here is a link to a previous post and I will take a pic tomorrow

http://www.mmoc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f= ... 0&start=15

[welshrat]

I may well be wrong yet again but I think that the last time I swapped a box and clutch I did not do any of the under bonnet work. Just supported the engine, gearbox relalated stuff removed and dropped, new clutch fitted and box back on. It was hard work but cannot recall fetling with the exhaust, dizzy etc.

[Declan_Burns]

I may well be wrong yet again but I think that the last time I swapped a box and clutch I did not do any of the under bonnet work. Just supported the engine, gearbox relalated stuff removed and dropped, new clutch fitted and box back on. It was hard work but cannot recall fetling with the exhaust, dizzy etc.

I agree, and I don't recall removing the seats and the gearbox cover either.
Regards
Declan

[gtt1951]

Thanks everyone for the responses.
Under bonnet work - I referred to 3 manuals (the BMC ring binder one, Haynes and Autopress) and they all say to lower the rear of the engine (supported on tackle) to facilitate gearbox removal. Removing the gearbox tunnel is also included (but Declan, I didn't remove the front seats, they just don't show up in the pictures).
It is just as well that the tunnel was removed because it freed up the pressure on the fuel pipe which then burst the perished rubber connection. It has also shown me that there is a load of very soggy mush surrounding the master brake cylinder, which I will have to spoon out! This cylinder doesn't appear to be leaking, so all this crud must be left over from when the item was changed last (about 1998). I'll find out about leaks after cleaning - just adds to the work.
The braking system was filled with Silicone fluid, by the immediately previous owner. I didn't do any work on the car, last night, as rain was lashing down and I'm working in the open.
George.

[gtt1951]

Welshrat and Declan, looks like I've been making extra work for myself. I do remember, years ago, when dropping the box on an Escort MkII, that we did have to disconnect the exhaust pipe to allow the engine to drop at the back sufficiently to get at the clutch.
I've got all the possible "snaggable bits" out of the way, so I'll see for future use, what I didn't have to remove.
Thanks, George.

[gtt1951]

Another little set-back. Getting ready to remove the relay shaft - box side[frame][/frame] and chassis side[frame][/frame]
Oh oh, what's all this surrounding the bracket?[frame][/frame]
Its the rubber bush (and also the bronze inner bush) , which looked like this when dismantled[frame][/frame] and now taken apart[frame][/frame][frame][/frame]
Cleaned up the relay shaft, which appears to be the later type with 5/16" holes (except mine are elongated), to find excessive wear on the part that fits to the box[frame][/frame]and the eccentric holes for the rods[frame][/frame][frame][/frame]
The Moss Europe near my place of work has these at £10.75 - should I just bite the bullet and get a replacement?
Of course there were no washers at the site of the 2 split pins I had to remove[frame][/frame](view from underneath car)

[bmcecosse]

They are 'always' like that. Yes - fit new....

[gtt1951]

Thanks for your answer, BMC. Both Moss Europe at Hanworth/Hampton Industrial Estate and ESM have a "Linkage Kit" for just under £30 [ESM's website prices do not include VAT and Moss' catalogue does - ESM also charge p&p, unless over £60 ex VAT and Moss are pick-up en-route]. Moss also have a snazzy Clutch Alignment Tool (that looks like the business end of the input shaft) for just under a Fiver.
How many more things am I going to find that need sorting out?
I've also found water in the passenger side chassis member (it has rained, but the car has been on ramps and under cover)[frame][/frame]Is that a bit of "day-light" I can see?
And the top engine steady - is this the way round it should be?[frame][/frame]If so, then it will make it more difficult to tighten up. I seem to remember that my 1964, 1098cc engined saloon had the bracket same way up as my orginal fitting.
And I forgot about the test filling of my replacement gearbox - it needed draining![frame][/frame]

[welshrat]

All getting rather expensive, if the cost is not a problem replace the lot, however, a chap I know by the name of Mr Tight Bar-Steward would just replace the bushes and apply plenty of grease and see how it works. If not the desired outcome new bits can be fitted with minimum fuss at a later date. Still using 51 year old rods etc and have a healthy clutch, changed the bushes about 10 years ago.