Torsion bar rear locating washer trouble

[Fingolfin]

I've got a curious problem for you.

Having removed, serviced, and put back all of Mog's suspension, I somehow managed to fail to correctly centralize the rear locating washer (http://morrisminorspares.co.uk/shop/pro ... d44fb55c77) on the left-hand side, and the spring force in the torsion bar caused the bar to sit in the bottom of its mounting hole. The washer caused slight bending of the crossmember in this area. (Yes I drove it this way.)

In my diagram, the torsion bar is red, the locating washer green, and the body black. The top diagram is how it should appear as designed, and the bottom is how it appears on Mog.[frame][/frame]
I have been attempting to relocate the washer, but I've been unable to so far because the metal is bent; this causes the torsion bar to spring downward whenever weight is applied, regardless of how tight I've done up the nut. I can't keep running the car this way, since the torsion bar is somewhat vertically mobile, and the crossmember (brand new!) could begin wearing in addition to bending. What do I do?

[MarkyB]

Remove the torsion bar and flatten the crossmember.
I'd hold the face of a club hammer against the back then beat the bent bit back with another lighter hammer.
Offer up the washer on it's own when you are done to make sure it's going to fit properly.

When fitting these I normally get a small amount of tension into the torsion bar against the washer then tap the washer till it drops into the hole, then tighten it up.

[bmcecosse]

2nd vote for the above - but in addition - you may need to weld in some new metal to get the hole correct. It is obviously very important... do you have the 'slotted' washer on the end of the T bar ?? I 'll ask again - can anyone explain why it is 'slotted' - I can't see the reason for the slot - and indeed I would have thought a deeper stepped locating washer was a better bet really - and would help to avoid what has happened in this case. And - since we are on the subject - is the screw sticking out of the T bar end renewable? Or is it machined as part of the T bar? It's not listed as a part by anyone - and I haven't managed to break one (yet) but am just naturally curious !

[dalgrae]

As BMC reply if you need a new deeper flanged washer and you can supply me with the sizes I am happy to make a new one for you with or without the slot .

Let me know

[Fingolfin]

That's roughly as I thought...I just didn't want to acknowledge the answer because it's a big job (removing torsion bar and perhaps exhaust pipe to gain enough clearance). I do have the slotted washer in position. I think the threads on the end of the bar are machined on, and non-renewable, but I can't be certain. Delgrae, that's a nice offer, I'll let you know.

I'll give it a go and tell you how I get along.

[bmcecosse]

You should be well practiced at taking the T bar off now....it's only a 10 minute job when the nuts etc are all easy running ! Exhaust? Maybe depends how much space you need to work. I would try with it in place......

[Fingolfin]

Hehe, Roy, I understand you've been working with Minors for twice as long as my total lifespan (22)! It may be a ten-minute job for you, but it was a bit longer for me.

In any event, I did not have to remove the exhaust, and having removed the torsion bar I managed (with some difficulty due to limited space) to hammer the hole into the correct shape. Then I discovered the ultimate source of the problem: a blob of weld from the crossmember/floorpan replacement had escaped my grinder, and was forcing the rear arm downwards. I filed this off, and everything fitted up perfectly. Problem solved!

[MarkyB]

Good work!

[rayofleamington]

I 'll ask again - can anyone explain why it is 'slotted' - I can't see the reason for the slot

I'm amazed that you didn't ever see the reason why.

The torsion bar can be removed more easily by leaving the eyebolt bushes in place and sliding it rearward through the hole in the crossmember until the fulcrum pin is out of the eyebolt bushes. The only way to do that is to remove the slotted washer (using the slot!).

[plastic_orange]

The rear threaded portion of the Torsion bar is machined - I know as I suffered a breakage there the day before I was due to deliver the car to new owner - cue rapid replacement (which I had). Only evidence was a nut lying on my drive
I reckon that the professional restorer of the car (before I got it) was using air tools on it as I found other things wrong too during repair process.

Pete

[Fingolfin]

Very interesting facts, there, Ray and Pete. I love the trivia available on the messageboard -- every time I read something, I feel like I'm receiving free education!

Just a brief follow-up. I drove Mog around some today, having repaired the torsion bar thing, and I'm very pleased to report that fixing the t-bar location seems to have eradicated the loudest knocks and rattles. Mog is now a much greater joy to drive! Thanks for your help, everyone.

[bmcecosse]

Ray - I must have missed the explanation - thanks for it now. BUT - I can't see how it helps - the washer is smaller diameter than the splines on the T bar - and smaller than the hole in the crossmember -so surely it can pull back (after somehow moving the long stuck reaction arm forwards ) with the slotted washer in place ? Doesn't sound like an 'easy' way to drop the T bar out...... It's v easy to do by just unloading at the front arm - and then tilt downwards to disengage form the eyebolt.......after undoing one nut at the rear - and the bolt/nut securing the reaction arm through the multi-hole plate.

[philthehill]

I agree with Bmc about removing the torsion bar rearwards through the cross member and which is totally dependent upon the lever torsion - rear being free to move forward on the splines!
The removal process has been bugging me so I have checked my spares stock and yes the 'U' shaped washer does stop the torsion bar pulling through the cross member and yes it is too big to go through the cross member hole so has to have the 'U' shape. Hole in cross member 27mm, max dia of retaining washer 33.2mm, max dia of 'U' washer 31.6mm and max dia of torsion bar splines 26mm.
I found that the 'U' shaped washer lever retaining distorts when fitted between the end of the torsion bar and the cross member because there is a void between the washer lever locating (Part No SUS126) and the 'U' shaped washer. To over come this and to make for a more positive location for the end of the torsion bar I have replaced the 'U' shaped washer with a washer the same thickness and external diameter as the 'U' shaped washer to fit inside the recess of the lever torsion - rear (so no fiddling to get it right there; making sure that the washer butts up against the splined end of the torsion bar) and installed another washer lever locating (Part No SUS126) on the front side of the cross member. An extra washer between the lever torsion - rear end and the adjuster plate (Part No SUS128) may be required. It all goes together well and is a much more positive location arrangement.
I have found that the right angle corner between the diameter of the locating washer where it fits into the cross member and the face of the locating washer where it fits against the cross member is not always a right angle more of a radius which in some cases does not help for a positive location. The last locating washers I fitted I had to improve the angle to get a snug fit in and against the face of the cross member.