Engine failure!

[Clive50]

I was driving along in my moggy with my family and I was pushing her a bit and then she just died! as tho it was a sudden engine failure due to fuel stoppage all of a sudden, the petrol was very low so I made sure there was enough petrol in her by putting in the emergency 5 ltr can but she still wouldn't start, something was different about the way she sounded trying to start as well, normally you can hear a kind of clunk and some compression firing sounds etc as the engine is turned over but now it sounds like an electric engine winding noise?

That was more than a month ago, and since then I have bought: new distributor cap and HT leads, New coil, new carb, new petrol pump (many of these things needed a change anyway but she used to run reliably and now she just don't sound like she is even trying to start the engine, just a winding sound? if you know what I mean).
I have bought new points and condenser but I didn't want to start messing with the timing until I get some life sound out of her.
I read something about the Armature sticking or something but I couldn't find the sprocket or whatever to turn on the end and also the engine is turning on the starter motor by looking at the valves in the head, so now I'm thinking its a blown head gasket?


She is a 1954 803cc split screen.

Does anybody have any ideas or experience of this please?

Clive.

[lambrettalad]

do you have a spark at the plugs or the coil?

[Declan_Burns]

It could be your head gasket-have you done a compression test?
Regards
Declan

[blues2rock]

Probably best to just work methodically through what's needed to make the engine run viz fuel, compression and a spark at the right time.
So after trying to start for 10 seconds whip out a couple of plugs and see if they are wet with fuel. If yes move to next stage, if no check for fuel getting to float chamber and float needle etc.

If plugs are wet pop 'em back in. Remove distributor cap, turn on ignition and use a smallish screwdriver to just bridge across the points - there should be a few small sparks, if not check low tension circuit (wires, capacitor etc). If yes then put a spare plug into number one plug lead, rest the plug on the block and turn rngine over (ignition on) to see if you get a regular spark. If no then it's a high tension circuit problem (cap, rotor arm, leads etc). OR possibly a mechanical problem with the distributor drive (check to ensure the rotor arm turns when the engine is turning over.

If the above tests are ok then a compression test would be next.

After that ..........................where in Essex are you?

[bmcecosse]

Does indeed sound like head gasket problem. Compression check - or just lift the head........

[Clive50]

@ Declan_Burns : yes I have had a mate who said he knows a bit about moggies look but he said it had compression by turning the motor and putting finger over one of the pots but I did notice he only took out one plug and there might be a breach between two cylinders, I myself have checked this way (not on all 4 pots tho) and I thought the pressure was low compared to my little 100cc motorbike years ago, I would have thought it would have more compression myself.
Does anyone know what the compression should be on the 803cc engine?
I might get a tester and try taking out all the plugs myself and check them all properly.


@ blues2rock:
Yes I've tried all the previous tests, fuel and spark are fine that's why I'm thinking timing or compression now, I'm near lakeside if that's close to you let me know, I'm a bit lost now, I don't fancy taking the head off without more info just yet.


Thanks for the replies lads, keep em coming and we'll have another moggy running on the roads again ;)

Clive.

[bmcecosse]

Test the compressions properly.....it's not a difficult job to pop the head off!

[Sandun]

remove ur distrybuter cup with wiers - dont mix wiers check wiers one by one useing analoge maltimeter - clean ur S plags - remove fuel pump out hors put it in a bottel when on key fil ur bolel from fuel it is fine and chek ur fuel filter - check ur battery voltege if it is 12.3 to 12.5 fine when u start remember pull choke- then tell what happen

[blues2rock]

Mate I'm about an hour from you (Maldon) but as the others have said a compression test should be your next move. You're not looking for a specific value but for each cylinder to be similar to the others. If you have one or two cylinders very low it's time for the head to come off.

Also apologies if I seemed to state the obvious in first response but the way you had written your original post made me think you were just replacing bits willy nilly (am I allowed to say that???????)

If you re-post with the compression test results I'm sure there will be plenty of advice/guidence offered.

If you are at all unsure about the proceedure for a proper compression test come back. (no offence intended).

[Clive50]

OK thanks blues2rock, (no offense taken mate ;) ), I only replaced the parts i listed because as you test them you think, "Well its only cheap parts, why not!" lol
I think its the pride you want to get when you've been through it all yourself and renewed everything that isn't top notch and on a 59 year old car many parts look like they can be renewed and if they don't, you've always got a spare for when you do need it lol.
I'll try to borrow a compression tester or buy one and let you guys know, thanks again chaps ;)

Clive.

[bmcecosse]

Thumb over plug holes will be good enough guide to ultra low compressions on two adjacent cylinders......

[JOWETTJAVELIN]

Unusual for an 803 h/g to go...

[bmcecosse]

Indeed - because the compressions are so low, and the bores are so small - the 'flame' is far from the gasket edge ! May just be a burned out valve.

[mike.perry]

Turn the engine over on the starting handle, you will feel if there is a cylinder with low compression, even on an 803

[Clive50]

OK, Update, I bought a compression tester and as long as I'm using it correctly it shows no compression on all 4 cylinders!
I thought this when I tried with my thumb over the pots but somebody who said they knew a bit abouts moggies said its compression was ok, When I put my thumb over the pots it was not able to blow it off at all to allow any air to escape but I did feel some suction! just no blow.
Is this normal?
I had a 100cc motorbike with much more blow than this! lol you can feel a slight difference as the piston goes up n down but its not enough pressure to pop my finger off at all.

Any ideas please?

Clive.

[bmcecosse]

Hmmmm. Definitely not correct. You need the throttle wedged open, all 4plugs out, screw the tester in one hole. And crank it over for 3 or 4 seconds.. Then repeat for all 4.

[MarkyB]

Some compression tester have a button to release the pressure in the pipe after the test is done, this isn't sticking is it?

[Clive50]

OK the compression tester I got off eBay is faulty but it still has no compression in all 4 cylinders, The noticeable difference between a working 1.3Ltr. fiesta has so much compression it pushes my finger off the pots and you can hear it puff out with every stroke of the piston but nothing from the Morris, I'm pretty sure now its a compression fault so whats next?
Remove the head and check the gaskets?
Better get a gasket set anyway then wont I?
Any advice?

Clive.

[MarkyB]

Remove the head and check the valves I'd think.
The gasket generally only fails between 2 cylinders.
Get a top overhaul set and an extra spare head gasket, copper covered preferably a spare is always handy to have.

[kennatt]

take the oil filler off and turn the engine over three or four full turns,just use the handle and watch the two rockers that you can see inside the cover,are they moving.report back(Was there a clatter when it stopped)