SERIES II [GOLD DASH] SPEEDO IDENTIFICATION

[Tony H]

Hi. I have a 1954 Series II [OHV/Gold Dash] and I need to identify which of the 2 speedos I have is the correct one for the car. Both have the correct cream faces with red needles etc., the speedo I have in at the moment is a Smiths x70620/7 with black numbers [the fuel gauge is a brown numbered Smiths M.A gauge, the oil pressure is a Smiths black numbers gauge!]. I also have a Smiths M.A x70620/7 with brown numbers, which is the right speedo for the car?

Also as I plan to refurbish one of the speedos, can anyone help me with dismantling? Are there any DO NOTS! Can you just pull the needle off the spindle? [yes you can!]

Charlies .pdf speedo manual is very helpful. I've attached pics of the 2 speedo faces, which is the correct one for the car?[frame][/frame][frame][/frame]

UPDATE 17.3.13

I have refurbished and fitted the brown numbered speedo to my Series II. Interestingly If your speedo is inacurate, mine was 8mph slow, you can adjust the needle on the spindle + or -. Adjustment is limited depending on the strength of the return spring as it must return the needle to the 0 stop. You need satnav/reversable drill/patience etc. [See Charlies .pdf]

Still no firm answers on the oil gauge, seemingly some were black numbered. Hopefully someone out there has the answers. I need to see pics of other oil gauges. Why did Smiths not put their logo on the oil gauge? Did Smiths supply other manufacturers with the same gauge but with black numbers?

UPDATE 23.3.13

Still no answers on the oil gauge. There seems to be black numbered speedos, fuel and oil gauges out there but no one has come forwards to talk about them. This dash and an oil gauge are on Ebay at the moment, clearly an MM/SII dash with black numbers, also the oil gauge has black numbers[frame][/frame][frame][/frame]

[JOWETTJAVELIN]

Mike Perry should be able to help with correct speedo. identification.

I would be extremely careful about dismantling if I were you, as they are very fragile precision instruments and simply pulling apart is asking for trouble. It will need calibrating.

Get the professionals to do it like Thos. Richfield or Speedy Cables.

[LouiseM]

A speedo identification table is here: http://potteries.mmoc.org.uk/Identify.htm

Messageboard member charlie_morris_minor has a pdf document explaining how to strip & refurbish a speedo so send him a pm with your e-mail address if you would like a copy.

[mike.perry]

All my speedos have brown numbers. As above, have it proffessionally cleaned and serviced

[Tony H]

All my speedos have brown numbers. As above, have it proffessionally cleaned and serviced

Hi Mike

Further to my PM to you yesterday, my fuel guage is a Smiths M.A brown numbered guage and my oil pressure guage is a Smiths black numbered guage.

As you are saying 'speedo's' plural, [how many SII's do you have?] If it is several and they are all brown guages the law of averages says mine should be brown also. I can rebuild the speedo with the brown face but I will have to buy a replacement oil guage [hens teeth?]

Regards
Tony

[Tony H]

Hi. I have an October 1954 Series II [OHV/Gold Dash] and I need to identify which of the 2 speedos I have is the correct one for the car.

Both speedos have the correct cream faces with red needles etc., the speedo I have in my dash at the moment is a Smiths x70620/7 with black numbers [the fuel gauge is a brown numbered Smiths M.A gauge, the oil pressure is a Smiths black numbers gauge!].

I also have a Smiths M.A x70620/7 speedo with brown numbers, which is the right speedo for my car? Did Morris fit 2 types of speedo to the SII? My guess is that the Smiths M.A brown numbered speedo is the correct one so I will need to change the oil guage to a Smiths M.A brown numbered guage. [if I can find one!] Please can you fellow SII owners confirm my guess.

[LouiseM]

Tony - I've merged your 2 threads together as it gets a bit confusing if there are two posts running in different forums with the same topic.

X70620/7 is the correct speedo for an early Series II, as per the speedo identification table link posted earlier. All early Series II speedos & instruments were the same as in Series MM's and had a cream coloured face with brown markings.

[Tony H]

Tony - I've merged your 2 threads together as it gets a bit confusing if there are two posts running in different forums with the same topic.

X70620/7 is the correct speedo for an early Series II, as per the speedo identification table link posted earlier. All early Series II speedos & instruments were the same as in Series MM's and had a cream coloured face with brown markings.

Hi LouiseM
Thanks for your post. I was concerned that my posts were not getting much response because they were buried in the technical forum when they are not particularly technical! So my guess on the brown numbered speedo being correct and period are right. I will fit it at the weekend. What of the black numbered speedo, it is virtually identical [slight difference in fonts] to the brown M.A speedo. Where does it come from and what car does it fit? I understood these speedos were made specially for Morris/BMC. Someone must know.
Regards
Tony

[liammonty]

Hi,
Just to add to Louise's point about early SII instruments being the same as in the MM, it's almost true, but not quite. There is one crucial difference that I can think of between the speedos. The MM speedo is 1600 tpm, and the Series II is 1000. Needless to say, if you fit one from an MM, you're going to have a seriously inaccurate speedo! I think the '1000' I can see on both of your speedo pictures means that the speedo you have is for a S II car, not an MM.

[LouiseM]

I was referring to the instrument faces being the same, not the speedos. The speedo with the brown markings is definately a Series II one - you can tell from the serial number X70620/7

[Tony H]

I was referring to the instrument faces being the same, not the speedos. The speedo with the brown markings is definately a Series II one - you can tell from the serial number X70620/7

Yes but the black numbered speedo face has the same ref number...were these speedos also fitted to the SII? Don't forget that my oil guage also has black numbers.

[LouiseM]

According to Ray Newell's book 'Original Morris Minor' all of the Smiths instruments in the Series MM - speedo, petrol & oil pressure gauges - had a cream face with brown markings and this remained unchanged for the early Series II cars. There's no mention of any change to black markings.

I'll move this thread to the Series MM forum as it will be more likely to be seen by Series MM owners there

[mike.perry]

Refering to my collection of speedos, they included a Series II which I have sold, my spare Series MM, the Series MO with a trip meter which is in the car, the Series MM which I am converting to a rev counter with a different face and the replica glove box lid clock. All have brown numbers[frame][/frame]

[Tony H]

Refering to my collection of speedos, they included a Series II which I have sold, my spare Series MM, the Series MO with a trip meter which is in the car, the Series MM which I a converting to a rev counter with a different face and the replica glove box lid clock. All have brown numbers[frame][/frame]

Hi Mike
Thanks for the info. I have fitted the correct brown numbered speedo today as recommended. As I need to find an oil guage to match, do you, or anyone else, have a photo of one you could let me see, to help me with my search. My oil guage has black mumbers and does not say Smiths, see pic.
Re the black numbered speedo, no members have been able to identify it as yet. I think it maybe a refurbished gauge that has been badly done!
Regards
Tony[frame][/frame]

[dalgrae]

I have taken one apart as the mileometer part did not work , what seems to happen is that the very small fibre gear is driven by an integral cam pin and over a long period of time the locations for the pin seize in the speedo part, this results in a couple of teeth being stripped from the fibre gear. I managed to find the correct gear from a motorcycle autojumble as I believe they were a common fit in a lot of Smiths speedos.The gear is retained by a small clip and a very fine spring is employed to keep it in contact. After this and some local cleaning my speedo worked fine

[1843lamp]

I have two full sets of '52 mm cream face gauges and I noticed one of my oil gauges seems to have black face numerals on it ,I unfortunately did not check an see if it also has smiths on it ,I have a feeling these black ones are original ,some of my gauges are browner than others ,some even look blackish.

[TvdWerf]

[frame][/frame][frame][/frame]
Mine are also brown, and because the engine was the first one, there is no reason to think that the speedo should be different...

[Tony H]

According to Ray Newell's book 'Original Morris Minor' all of the Smiths instruments in the Series MM - speedo, petrol & oil pressure gauges - had a cream face with brown markings and this remained unchanged for the early Series II cars. There's no mention of any change to black markings.

I'll move this thread to the Series MM forum as it will be more likely to be seen by Series MM owners there

LouiseM. I would prefer that these threads are back were they were originally. My car is not an MM it is a Series II. I want response from Series II owners not MM owners. [besides since you moved the threads the response has died!]
Thanks

[LouiseM]

I've moved the thread back to the technical forums as requested but your early Series II dials are identical to Series MM ones, and you received more responses in the Series MM forum. And you did say that you were concerned that you weren't getting responses because your message was buried in the technical section, hence the reason for me moving it to the Series MM forum for you. It may be helpful if you posted a message to say what other information you are looking for as threads do tend to 'die' once queries have been answered.

[RobThomas]

3-year old thread, but...

Black letters on MM-type gauges are fitted to Standard Vanguards and possibly other British cars of the era. Morris seemed to have gone for the brown letters, as stated above.

As for KPH speedos, does the number that we term 'TPM' on the facia change when the same car is changed between MPH and KPH? Would an identical car in Holland be sold with a KPH gauge displaying the same TPM number or would it be approximately 5:8 different?