Specification advice

[jfs52e]

I have advertised my 1961 Old English White Moggie for sale and received a call from a gentleman who has raised some questions. Now, I don't pretend to be anywhere near an expert on what specification was produced when, but I have been led to believe my car is an original spec May 1961 2 door deluxe. The chap who called, questioned the fact my seats are monotone PVC (light Blue), stating they should be duo tone. Also I have the "modern" indicator/sidelight type lights, not trafficators. He informed me this was not possible as trafficators were not discontinued until 1964. Can anybody tell me with any certainty if either of these things are right or wrong? To be honest, I could accept if the seats have at some time been changed, but find it hard to believe the trafficators have been changed and the space for them filled in. Oh, and I have hand clap windsreen wipers, but obviously no split screen.

Thanks for any help you are able to give, I know there are many experts out there.

And my profile picture is not the car for sale, but my beloved 1956 "Humpty"

[chesney]

Have you checked the area where the trafficators should be? On my car, this had been filled in. After all, our cars have all had several owners that may have changed the car to appear more modern. May be worth PM'ing POMMReg for more info.

[ASL642]

Just had a quick look at your advert in the Sales section. I have a genuine 61 2 dr (with trafficator slots) which has been changed to the later orange/white side lights, and my Husband has an early '62 2 dr De Luxe (without trafficator slots) Both cars were originally 948 cc's and had clap hands wipers.

There are grey areas in the chageover periods when Morris built cars which had some features from the last design and from the future.

As for your interior, if you car was originally a late (Oct '61) they did 2 interiors for Old English White -either Tartan Red or the blue.

[liammonty]

1964 is NOT when trafficators were discontinued- as others have said it was earlier. Basically, the man you refer to was wrong. I think it's feasible that your car is as it should be in not having them- if it didn't originally, it would have had the early indicators with the flashing brake lights at the rear, and flashing sidelights at the front with a large relay thingy mounted on the inner right wing under the bonnet (my early '62 has this set up). Many have changed this set up to the later type of lights (like you say your car has), as it's pretty useless in modern traffic. Also, duotone seats fall apart more easily than all other types, and subsequently are frequently replaced with different seats. This isn't uncommon. I don't think the later type of heat formed vinyl seats were ever fitted to cars with clap hands wipers, so that would prove that they are retro fitted if yours are this type. It sounds quite possible that your car is genuinely the age you think it is to me.

[brucek]

Duotone seats were the deluxe option on cars of the 62-64 era. Standard cars had the same design layout but were a single colour only. See this thread for an example of standard seats showing the same pattern as duotone seats. http://www.mmoc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f= ... e&start=30 - go to page three to see the diferences! Trafficators were discontinued around August 1961 (from c/no 2dr 925555)

For a May 1961 car you should see trafficators but not the duotone style of seat. Originally it would have been this design http://www.newtoncomm.co.uk/cars/morris ... ucts-2671/ . 'Clap hands' wipers are normal for this period and It is not unusual to find that (i) Trafficators have been removed and the gap filled in, (ii) Trafficators are there but are for show only and the car has been fitted with flashing indicators as a concession to modern motoring, (iii) trafficators and flashing indicators are both present and both working as a nod to the past whilst maintaining some originality.

Sounds like your car is almost completely original and as a May '61 would be expected to look. Post a few photo's too so we can have a look to see if anything else deserves comment

[liammonty]

Hi Brucek,
Good point about the seats!
Liam.

[jfs52e]

Thanks for the advice everybody. Brucek, I followed your link and now think the seats have been changed for a set of 64-71 specification. Just need to check the trafficator query by re-checking the car, and I'll hopefully be able to tell potential buyers the correct information

[brucek]

Take off the rear trim quarter panel (just behind either front seat) and look close up to the B post (where the door catches engage) - if it had trafficators and the gap has been filled, you'll see the evidence from behind much easier than from the outside. For a May '61 car I would have thought it would have had them fitted but can't be 100% sure on that.

[POMMReg]

Pm the chassis,body & engine number.

Saves a lot of time faffing around taking off trim and
using magnets.

Chris
MINR Historian

[jfs52e]

Just discovered the car was actually registered in October 61, not May. That may explain the seats, but I still think they may be from a later model. Does it make any difference to the opinion on trafficators? (I'll make further checks as suggested anyway when I get the chance). The picture is one taken in happier times before she was taken off the road[frame][/frame]

[brucek]

The key is when it was built rather than registered. October 61 would suggest that it was built in August/September (most probably September as they didn't hang around in the dealers for very long at that stage in their production). Given earlier posts it's right on the cusp of the change to disposing with trafficators.

PM the body number/chassis number to Chris (POMM reg) and he may nebe able to tell you more. Body number is on an ally plate on the top right hand side of the bulkhead as you look at the car with the bonnet up.

Seats are almost certainly the later heat formed vinyl ones which are/were ten a penny and still quite easy to come by. Only an issue if the potential purchaser is fixed on a totally original car. Most would hope them to be tidy and in good repair so the car can be used and the trim changed leter if dersired. Harder, but not impossible to find the earlier interiors and, don't forget, the door cards, quarter panels etc. will all be different too.

[DaisyMayFozz]

I've got a 61 2 door (OEW also) And it has the later red Melvyn seats and incorrect lights. Mine is April 1961 registered so should have had the trafficators, but on mine somebody has filled them in. So your not the only one!!!

[irmscher]

At the end of the day this shouldnt effect the saleability of the car

[mike.perry]

A prospective buyer who thinks he knows more than he does

[bmcecosse]

Hahaha - picture taken on a dry day (not many of them) at East Kilbride.... Your prospective buyer is worrying about tiny tiny insignificant details.....just tell him the car is what it is....

[brucek]

Hahaha - picture taken on a dry day (not many of them) at East Kilbride.... Your prospective buyer is worrying about tiny tiny insignificant details.....just tell him the car is what it is....

Absolutely!! if tiny (innaccurate) details like these are bothering him - he's not the right guy to have your car. Keep going and you'll know when the 'right' person comes along

[jfs52e]

Well done bmcecosse, it was indeed East Kilbride. As I remember it rained at the end of the day. Who knows I may get the splitty up this year (If it's still on).