VIN issue

[POMMReg]

James

send it to; pommreg@gmail.com

Thanks

Chris
POMMRegister Bore

[Jamesjmercer]

Chris

Here are all the identifiable numbers to be found on the vehicle:

Gearbox: 331454 (see attached photo)

NMP No: Z24706 (4 is an educated guess, it could be 8 or 9)

Key No: FP689

Engine No: 9MUH490060

Original colour - Smoke Grey/Light Blue

Window glass and wiper motor dated 1959

I look forward to more of your detective work

Kind regards

James[frame][/frame]

[brucek]

Have provided details of my 59 convertible whose numbers match to help Chris narrow things down a bit. I assume the gearbox number in the photo is different from the gearbox number on the heritage certificate? It may be possible to ask Gaydon which car had the gearbox you have from their record of gearbox numbers. It might show that the gearbox is related to the original car perhaps?

Also, a trace via DVLA might also help as clearly there has been some attempt to conceal or change the vehicles identity. This would be a strong enough reason for DVLA to divulge the details of former keepers/owners to you (which I think you are entitled to anyway as the current owner)

One other possibility to check - and I'm not sure if this will work, but according to the article about the prototype 1000 convertible in Morris Minor magazine recently, there was/is additional strengthening panel unique to genuine convertibles directly underneath the windscreen at the top of the bulkhead up where the wiper wheelboxes are located. On my 59 convertible it does appear that there is an additional panel there ( like a double skin across the bulkhead) which, until I read the article, I really hadn't noticed before. I have attached some pics here:[frame][/frame][frame][/frame][frame][/frame][frame][/frame][frame][/frame]

These are all taken looking upwards behind the speedo hole and without the gloveboxes in place. I'm not sure that saloons had this additional strengthening and if your is, or was, a converted saloon, this panel is probably missing as the proprietary kits that I have seen do not include a strengthening panel here.

Of course, if a saloon owner can confirm whether this panel exists on their car then I'm wrong and it's another dead end I'm afraid. Good luck with your efforts though and do keep us informed how you get on.

[WPR678B]

Gearbox: 331454 (see attached photo)

[frame][/frame]

From this picture I would say that this is a 1098cc ribbed case box so certainly not original to a 1959/60/61 car for sure.
Maybe James could confirm if the box is ribbed and then you will know that is a dead lead too

[POMMReg]

Engine number is 9MH 490060 (948cc)

[WPR678B]

Engine number is 9MH 490060 (948cc)

That maybe, but if the gearbox is a 1098 ribbed case and not a 948 smooth case then it is obviously not the original in the car and its number will not help you with the vehicles identification in the slightest!

[POMMReg]

Rear axle number?

If at first you don't succeed et al

[Jamesjmercer]

Can a 1098 gearbox be married succesfully to a 948cc engine?

I am now in little doubt that the car is a 'modified' rather than an original factory convertible.

I have received info about all the previous owners from DVLA. I suspect (but cannot of course be certain), that the change of id and modification happened around 2003 when a change of colour was recorded in the documentation and the registration changed. The car (a genuine convertible) identified on the Heritage Certificate was orginally Clarendon Grey, resprayed white in mid 1980's. The car I own would appear to have been light blue/grey, with no obvious evidence of being resprayed white.

The gearbox no. is not recorded on the Heitage cert.

I have crawled under the car this afternoon, but could not easily find a serial no. on the rear axle. Where is the serial no. usually located? The cold concrete of the garage floor discouraged too long an investigation I must admit!

Thanks for all the correspondence and advice to date

James

[chesney]

a 1098 gearbox can be fitted to a 948 engine

[MarkyB]

original factory convertible

This refers to the body having been built as a convertible, engine and gearbox changes are to be expected with a Minor of any age.

[Jamesmercer]

I think the gearbox is a ribbed 1098 model, so no good for identifying original identity of the car - nuisance.

[Jamesjmercer]

Progress in project VIN identification.

I have matched the engine number 9M-U-H/490060 with the Gaydon records.

This engine was fitted to a Clipper Blue two-door saloon - (confirming expectation that the vehicle is a 'converted' convertible)

Date of build 21 October 1960

Body no: 35172

VIN: M-A2S3/873226

This fits very well. Clipper Blue can be identified under the green respray and the 'finishings' and trim are consitent with a 1960 model.

The rear axle number is recorded by Gaydon as 425942. Although having wire-brushed the rear axle and searched for the serial number, (which I beleive should be found stamped on the front of the left hand axle tube adjacent to the spring seat), I have been unable to find it.

The original key no given by Gaydon is FP 691. The Key no I have is FP 689 which is very close, although the ignition lock itself is numbered FP 719. Is there margin for error here?

The gearbox number is given by Gaydon as 485. This does not match, but evidence (see above) suggests a 1098cc gearbox has subsequently been fitted.

The NMP no identifiable on the vehicle is Z2*706. The first number of the mutilated original VIN would appear to be '8', possibly ending in '0', which could originally have been '6' - so the jigsaw is beginning to fit together...

Is there any thing else that might clinch the deal before I enter into a conversation with the DVLA?

Thanks for all the advice received.

James

[POMMReg]

James

Glad you got there in the end, although you're a digit short on the body
number.

Is there signs of 'Clipper Blue' paint on the car?

Chris
POMMReg & MINR Historian

[Jamesjmercer]

Chris

Yes 'clipper blue' can be found in a few places - with a dull matt hue.

I appear to be missing the last digit of the body number.

Thanks for advice

James

[plastic_orange]

Entering into conversation with DVLA could open up a can of worms for you. Far better to be honest when selling it on that it may be a converted saloon - then nobody gets hurt.

Pete

[Jamesjmercer]

I realise it may be risky to inform DVLA, but it it's not just that vehicle's paper work show it to be an original convertible rather than a saloon, the documents are for another vehicle altogether and with a two year discrepancy in date of manufacture.

Correct documentation is important for me if I am to retain and restore the car.

And I don't want to perpetuate a fraud!

James

[Jamesjmercer]

Re the body number - it would seem an error was made recording this on the original Morris record!

The last digit is missing from the record, hence 35172*

James

[ASL642]

Not the first time. these records were entered into the books at speed with no one checking whether the numbers were correct. Have you managed to get it sorted now?

[Nutts]

welcome to the club....
My 1954 is similar although Vin,engine, body, all tie up I am told speedo should not be in centre.
so unless someone has gone to great lengths, I am just going to enjoy it.

[POMMReg]

Does the stamped vin tie in with the numbers on the vin
plate?

The body number suggests a pre facelift yet the car clearly
displays the central speedo.

What body nos - not vin - is quoted in parts books as the
change point? May be different on Cowley built Minors.

Chris
MINR Historian