Breaky brakes

Post by **Multiphonikks** » Sun Nov 21, 2004 5:29 pm

Hey folks

So, down in Bristol planning the take over of the world that Kate and I are spearheading, and I decide (cause hebe's brakes need it) to bleed the brakes.

Only problem is that the brake nipples are solid... One is badly rounded off and it's certainly going to need a set of new nipples.

Copper pipes are fine as are the cylinders and master cylinder*. The pads are going to get replaced some time in the future but are okay for the moment.

Anyone here ever got off seized nipples on the brake pipe? Am I going to get away with just buying new nipples and cutting/drilling the old ones out?

The intention was to flush the system anyway - as Kate commented, it looks as if the brake fluid hasn't been changed for a long time...

Nikki

*I know it's not the master cylinder cause the brakes bite firmly after a rather long way or a shorter way if you pump them and once the brakes are on the pedal doesn't sink any further.

Post by **Cam** » Sun Nov 21, 2004 6:40 pm

To remove seized brake nipples use mole grips and a bit of heat and they usually undo. Can be a bit tricky though and the mole grips have to be TIGHT!

Post by **bigginger** » Sun Nov 21, 2004 6:51 pm

And, as I just said to Kate, there's a danger that the nipple will shear flush with the backplate. Then's the time to try drilling...

Post by **Multiphonikks** » Sun Nov 21, 2004 6:55 pm

... so presumably I should be okay to just order new nipples?

With regard to the mole grips, we tried that earlier on on the nipple with a little penetrating oil on the outside to find that when we tried to turn the nipple with the mole grips the whole union on the back of the wheel moved... I was wary of breaking the whole thing off...

So Cam, a gas torch and a bit of brute force eh? - I'd wondered about gently sawing into the nipple (breaking it in half to take it off) but... I'll try the heat first

Post by **Cam** » Sun Nov 21, 2004 7:04 pm

... so presumably I should be okay to just order new nipples?

Maybe........... it all depends on HOW bad they are. Careful with the heat though. Don't melt any rubbers!

To be honest sometimes it's much easier to take the cylinder off and do it in the vice on the bench. Usually the correct fitting spanner and taps on the spanner with a small hammer can usually 'shock' most things undone. But if yours is knarled then mole grips are really your next option.

Post by **Multiphonikks** » Sun Nov 21, 2004 7:14 pm

Cam wrote:
... so presumably I should be okay to just order new nipples?
Maybe........... it all depends on HOW bad they are. Careful with the heat though. Don't melt any rubbers!

To be honest sometimes it's much easier to take the cylinder off and do it in the vice on the bench. Usually the correct fitting spanner and taps on the spanner with a small hammer can usually 'shock' most things undone. But if yours is knarled then mole grips are really your next option.

Given the amount of persuasion the leaf springs took to be taken off, I'm not entirely sure how long it'll take. But to be honest, I can't afford a do all the brakes kit just at the moment...

It's really quite sad and shocking. It's like Hebe's previous owners just polished her a lot.... I'm finding a never-ending sotry of negligence. Today I noticed two patches on the drive shaft....

Ah well... beware the polished classic... - and I haven't even started on my carburettor, which is really not liking this cold weather at all...

Post by **les** » Sun Nov 21, 2004 9:31 pm

Patches on the drive shaft? If you mean prop shaft those patches are for balancing the unit.

Post by **bigginger** » Sun Nov 21, 2004 10:55 pm

I'd just like to start a fight here by calling myself a liar. My memory is of shearing the bleed nipple on an old bedford van I used to own, then driving it for ages with the flexible brake hose cut off and clamped with a pair of mole grips. I was thinking about it, and can only conclude thar Alzhiemers is setting in. 1)The bleed nipple can only have sheared when it was shut QED no problem except not being able to bleed the brakes, 2) There's no flexible brake hose to the wheel on the rear axle of a bedford, so nothing to clamp shut and 3) I remember thinking it would need a new back plate and now realise I could have just replaced the wheel cylinder. Now 3 I'll put down to youthful stupidity, I know it did happen but can't have been much of a problem, but equally I know I clamped the hose on something with mole grips and drove it like that. I wonder what it was? I've also owned (I think) 8 Marinas, so probably one of them, but I'm gubbed if I can really remember... Anyhow, no need to point out I was talking carp, I know. I'll just go and get my pipe and slippers...

LATER But if I'd sheared a closed bleed nipple would it have leaked anyhow? I can't think how they work just now. Just take it from me there's a certain amount of false memory syndrome/talking rubbish going on here - sorry.

Post by **Pyoor_Kate** » Sun Nov 21, 2004 11:03 pm

Maybe........... it all depends on HOW bad they are.

Well, I actually managed to snap one of my spanners (my cunning plan being: file two new flats onto the round bleed nipple, use spanner and penetrating fluid, apply force).

For whatever reason I actually was wearing goggles at the time; which is something to be eternally grateful for, as there was the immortal "Plink-Crack-Tiiiiinnnnggg" of my Chrome-Vanadium, Drop Forged, Lifetime Guaranteed, 3/8" spanner cracking and flinging a small chunk of itself at speed inside the wheel arch. I wonder if I can find the reciept...

So, we're thinking gas torch and and mole grips. Rightho.

Post by **rayofleamington** » Sun Nov 21, 2004 11:06 pm

If it's the nipple in the banjo and they are severely tight, then try screwing them in, not just out. That might be enough to free the threads. If the molgrips slip round, then pull out the MIG and weld a blob on opposing sides the side so that the moley's can't slip.
If it does shear, make sure you get some new banjos (don't bother drilling them out as the banjo will be wrecked before you've finished) and get some new copper washers whilst you are at it, unless you have a gas hob (you need to heat the the washers up to cherry red then quench them in water to get them workable again, so the gas hob and some thin nose pliers are perfect for the job. It also helps to dress the washers flat again.... As you need to do all that it's easier to plan in advance and buy new washers ;-))

Post by **Multiphonikks** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 6:54 pm

btw, I'm also going to replace the brake linings - got the complete brake shoes waiting. The book of lies mentions brake grease, but... I've never heard of this before... Any comments?

Post by **bigginger** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 7:18 pm

They mean Copper Grease anywhere the pad carriers rub on the backplates - comes in wee tubes from the shop of frauds. Use V. sparingly, and don't get any on braking surfaces - and I'm not talking cobblers for once...

Post by **ColinP** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 7:23 pm

Or from your local car accessory shop in large tins (about £5.00)!

Colin

Post by **Alec** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 7:40 pm

Hello all,
yes, there is brake grease and it is not copperslip. Often put inside dust caps or in master\slave cylinders where the pushrods meet the piston. Usually red in colour.

Alec

Post by **bigginger** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 8:04 pm

Is there? I've never seen it. Just to check, I'm not doing things wrong or giving bad advice re. copper grease, am I? I've used it for years. And I know you can buy it in big tubs too, I always manage to lose things like that in between uses, so only buy small tubes!

Post by **Cam** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 8:24 pm

You are right about the copper grease Andrew, but the brake grease (red stuff) is a totally different animal and not used anywhere near as much as copper grease.

Nikki, what did the 'book of lies' say about where to put the 'brake grease'?? so we can determine which it is??

Post by **bigginger** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 8:54 pm

Phew! Thought I'd left everyone in my family driving around in death traps...

Post by **les** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 9:14 pm

I have found a tin of this leyland red grease and as far as I can make out the part number is 97h 276, doubtful if it is still carried though!

Post by **Multiphonikks** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 9:23 pm

Cam wrote:You are right about the copper grease Andrew, but the brake grease (red stuff) is a totally different animal and not used anywhere near as much as copper grease.

Nikki, what did the 'book of lies' say about where to put the 'brake grease'?? so we can determine which it is??

It says... "smear a trace of white brake grease to all sliding surfaces"....

So I guess I need to get that too...

Post by **bigginger** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 9:35 pm

Oh no! That's a third option Sounds to me like just where one would use copper grease, but over to the experts!