Wont start after rebuild!

[coulson1986]

Hello all as you are all now probably aware i have been rebuilding a 1098cc engine and now i have solved my carb problem the new problem is that it wont start!! The engne turns by hand beutifuly! all wires and everything are in place ect but she just wont fire up!! Any ideas?


Thanks

Marc

[mogbob]

Marc
The three requirements are compression, fuel and a spark.
Compression
Is the starter operating/ engaging / turning the engine over but not firing ?
Are you happy that the timing was correct, rotor arm to No 1 cylinder at tdc ( compression not exhaust)in which case, the firing would be 180 degrees out.
Fuel
Fresh fuel in tank ( ? ),is the fuel pump ticking, ignition on, prior to starting.Have you removed a spark plug and smelt that fuel is present ( now that you have solved your carb problem ) ?
Spark
Does " all wires " include the two earth straps ... front... engine/ bodywork ...second... gearbox / body work ?
Is a spark present with a spark plug removed and resting / held on the engine block Important to only use insulated pliers or a piece of wood to isolate yourself from the high voltage generated by the coil discharge.

Could you "update" the Forum so that we can dispense with the numerous possibilities at random.A logical approach always saves time in the long run.
It's usually something quite simple you miss...like we all do !! Lets get it cracked this year, eh ?
Bob

[bmcecosse]

If you are sure you have the plug leads on correctly - tip some petrol down the carb throat and crank it. If it doesn't start - the problem is with the ignition.... I assume valve gaps are correctly set........ And do tell us exactly what has been done to the engine...

[coulson1986]

Thankyou for your reply i will use your list off possibilites as a list and i will look into it tommorow as it has startded to tip it down with rain and its now starting to get Dark, I will keep you updated

Thanks,
Marc

[coulson1986]

Hi, I have checked the obvious ect but still did not have much luck today, The engine sounded like it was trying to fire up but just wouldnt fire, pertol was making its way into the engine as i removed a plug to check. I think the timing is out even though I followed the guide for rebuilding with the timing marks, please forgive me for my lack of knowlege as this is my first rebuild I have done alot of work on various cars over the past few years but i was feeling (a doddle for experts) daring enough to rebuild a morris engine. How do I go about setting thing right?

[mogbob]

Marc
Take off the rocker cover and then line up the timing marks,have the distributor cap off and make sure the rotor arm is pointing to the No 1 cylinder.Both valves 1 & two ( on cylinder No 1 nearest the radiator ) should be fully closed for compression ( i.e rocker arms raised ).

The shaft of the distributor has an offset dog leg and it is possible to get it 180 degrees wrong.If this is the case remove the distributor and put back correctly.With the leads in the right order on the distributor cap all should be well.
Bob

[mike.perry]

Have you got a spark anywhere yet? Once there is a spark we can start to trace the problem

[bmcecosse]

Just advance the timing by turning the dizzy anti-clockwise until it fires up. If it starts kicking against the starter - you have gone too far.......

[stag36587]

Marc
Take off the rocker cover and then line up the timing marks,have the distributor cap off and make sure the rotor arm is pointing to the No 1 cylinder.Both valves 1 & two ( on cylinder No 1 nearest the radiator ) should be fully closed for compression ( i.e rocker arms raised ).

As it's dark outside, just comparing problems here with my own ignition problems (first signs of life thread on- electrical forum).

On my engine, when rotor points to no.1 cylinder, Valves 1 and 3 are closed not 1 and 2 ?

Also, on some engines, e.g. VW beetle, I think I'm right in saying that a light on the dash goes out once sufficient oil pressure in the engine. On my car, the orange (LH of speedo) and red lights stay on before and during cranking. Is that correct for a minor?

[bmcecosse]

As you know - you SHOULD have 1 and 2 closed - have you tried advancing the dizzy (turn clockwise) as I suggested???? And yes - the orange light should go out with good cranking! With any 'new' engine (or one that has been standing for a longish time) you should take the plugs out and crank it till that light goes out - before even TRYING to start it....

[stag36587]

As you know - you SHOULD have 1 and 2 closed - have you tried advancing the dizzy (turn clockwise) as I suggested???? And yes - the orange light should go out with good cranking! With any 'new' engine (or one that has been standing for a longish time) you should take the plugs out and crank it till that light goes out - before even TRYING to start it....

Aha we could be on to something here! Yes I advanced dizzy clockwise (and also anti-clockwise) and it made no difference. I also cranked engine without spark plugs but perhaps not enough. I will try again!

[bmcecosse]

You obviously need to turn the dizzy far enough so the rotor arm IS pointing to #1 lead when 1 and 2 are closed at TDC....... It may take a good 20 seconds cranking to get the light to go out...... However - if it does not - you will need to prime the oil pump. In fact - I would do that anyway - since you probably have the plug on the back edge of the block (near where you wanted to 'solder' the water leak.,....

[stag36587]

I'll report back in due course. I'm glad no soldering of any kind was needed. This car certainly is fun and, strangely, rebuild far more challenging than the Stag (although I may just have fuzzy memory because I was much younger then)

[bmcecosse]

I guess you didn't have to change the Stag water pump then........

[stag36587]

No, it had Ford V6 Essex at the time - not a terrible conversion.... Good low end torque, compact within the engine bay, same weight as Stag V8 so unlike rover 3.5 V8, no need for front suspension adjustments. Only real problem is that purists don't like them so value always considerably less.

[kennatt]

looks like we are crossing threads there,but Stagg,as before, your dizzy rotor arm position is pointing at NO4 not no 1 thats why 1 and 2 valves are NOT in the closed and firing position,swap the plug leads as suggested,or turn the engine untill the pointer on the pully comes round one full turn then the rotor and valves will be at top dead centre on no 1 then start again with the leads 1.3.4.2.
As for the3 litre essex,it also had a very well founded reputation for stripping the fiber timing wheel round about 60 thou mark . Letting twelve valves hit six pistons and killing the engine,the 2.9 cologne,allthough still with fibre wheel was re designed and very rarely ,if ever ,stripped the wheel,if it did then it was a non interference engine and no damage was caused to anything else making it economical to repair with a new wheel.Which is why essex owners fit a steel or alloy wheel(Quite expensive anyway) that now makes the car sound like a tractor.

[coulson1986]

Hello all thankyou for your responses!

Belive it or not I am moving house tomorrow (2nd of Jan!) so i wont be able to work on my Morris until after the move! (i have to trailer it to my new house). I will save this page for future reference but by all means please add any extra info about the timing ect as i am new to this stuff.

Thanks and Happy New Year to you all!

[mogbob]

Marc
Happy New Year.We appreciate you will have other priorities for a few weeks settling in.
Hope the move goes well.
Bob

[stag36587]

looks like we are crossing threads there,but Stagg,as before, your dizzy rotor arm position is pointing at NO4 not no 1 thats why 1 and 2 valves are NOT in the closed and firing position,swap the plug leads as suggested,or turn the engine untill the pointer on the pully comes round one full turn then the rotor and valves will be at top dead centre on no 1 then start again with the leads 1.3.4.2.
As for the3 litre essex,it also had a very well founded reputation for stripping the fiber timing wheel round about 60 thou mark . Letting twelve valves hit six pistons and killing the engine,the 2.9 cologne,allthough still with fibre wheel was re designed and very rarely ,if ever ,stripped the wheel,if it did then it was a non interference engine and no damage was caused to anything else making it economical to repair with a new wheel.Which is why essex owners fit a steel or alloy wheel(Quite expensive anyway) that now makes the car sound like a tractor.

Many thanks. You are right, I originally had the Essex V6 rebuilt with steel timing gear as a precaution and the Stag certainly did sound a lot more"agricultural" than it does now with its new V8.

Now, onto the Moggie again. In an attempt to prime the oil pump (BMC's good suggestion) I decided to remove the bolt arrowed in this photo. Out dribbled some oil then a larger amount of water! Does this mean the head gasket has blown?[frame][/frame]

[liammonty]

I don't know why you would have got oil out of there (are you sure it wasn't rusty water?) as it's the drain plug for the water jacket. You'll have a job to prime the oil pump through there!