First signs of life

[stag36587]

Is the tank to pump joint fitted properly,if not it could be just sucking air and not drawing fuel.

Yes it is connected nice and securely but I'll also check pipe to tank connection

[stag36587]

T'is the season to be jolly - yes, but not where my car is concerned. Got into garage this morning and found that after 48 hours new battery was completely flat. Wonder why - I am still not convinced by the ignition switch. Anyway, charged the battery and there are no sparks at all when battery terminal connected - although there was a spark at positive battery terminal when I touched wire from coil positive to it (ignition switch at off). I had heavily insulated hands at the time.

yes! pump now working as it should (I re-did pipe union to tank and that seems to have cured any air leak)

great I thought - healthy sparks at spark plugs with hotwired coil and a working fuel pump, I will start the car.

I got a bang and puff of smoke from around manifold area and now engine won't turn over on the starter which now just whirs merrily away to itself. Tried starter handle and it appears I have no compression now!

what on earth do I do next. What has broken?

[bmcecosse]

No compression? You can just birl the engine over freely on the handle ???? Amazing - hard to believe... And the starter just whirs without cranking the engine?? You seem to have the MOST problematic Minor in the world - congratulations ! So - first move disconnect the battery and charge it. Also inspect and clean all connections to/from battery and to the starter. As for no compression - this could only (reasonably - there are other nastier possibilities....) happen if valves have jammed open.......is this possible? Was any work done to the head? Remove the rocker cover and show us a picture!!

[kennatt]

No compression? You can just birl the engine over freely on the handle ???? Amazing - hard to believe........................well yes but it happened to me a while ago,been stood for a time and dead battery,went to start on handle and no compression at all. Charged battery and it spun over rapidly, fired and ran. Then tried the handle and nearly broke my wrist on the kick back. Did a compression test and found 155 on all pots.Asked the question here and got no satisfactoy explanation,even now if it stands for a couple of weeks,there is good comnpression on the handle so for the life of me can't figure out why I had absolutly no compression that one time.

BMC ....... I also thought that it had to be stuck valves but how, it would need to have one valve in each pot to be stuck open at the same time highly unlikely but the only posibility.Because the only other would be a jumped timing chain but then it would not reverse itself back to compression,puzzled me for a while but gave up in the end.But suppose in this case the bang may have blown the head gasket across four pots,unlikely but

As for yours, the starter motor dog may have stuck and not be engaging the flywheel. Take the motor off and check it off the car.Are you absolutly certain you have the timing right,plug leads right. As to flat new battery,could be that you have just flattened it trying to start .If you now have a spark at the plugs,take them out and fit one to no one lead lay it on the block so that its earthed and turn the engine on the handle,when you see the spark ,stop and with a soft probe feel that no one piston is at the top.This will give you an indication that the timing is somewhere near correct,just as a confirmation.But if you have no compression on the handle then its going to take some starting ,and need investigation.

[bmcecosse]

Can only suggest gummy valves and weak springs.....sticking open when first turned over after a long rest.......

[stag36587]

Thanks for the replies guys. The car was laid up in a barn between 1993 and 2007 and no engine work had (or has been) carried out. I guess these are just the teething pains of a car being pulled back from the grave - just as well I am up for the challenge.

Bored with TV, I went into the garage again tonight and removed the rocker cover as suggested - see picture. It all looks ok to me but you may be able to spot something different. I turned the engine over a few times on the starting handle and this time it was all much stiffer. Starter motor continued to whirr aimlessly to itself though. I will remove it over the weekend to check it. Any other suggestions?[frame][/frame]

[bmcecosse]

You should have watched 'Final Run' film on TV - quite the very worst 'train film' I have ever seen - hilarious........ Anyway - the rockers and valves look ok there. You could check the valve gaps I suppose. Starter whirring could just be muck on the Bendix - whip it out and clean it. Add NO lubricant to the Bendix - it must be dry. Or it could be very flat battery..........

[stag36587]

The saga continues. Have removed the starter motor and tested it with direct connections to the battery. It spun quickly for a few seconds without any winding action until the battery died again.

Here are some photos - the motor is dirty but no damage to teeth and ring gear also looks ok (pic upside down).

And yes another issue. I might be mistaken but I think I found evidence of some (very) minor water seepage from the block (see arrow)[frame][/frame][frame][/frame][frame][/frame][frame][/frame][frame][/frame]

[bmcecosse]

Clean the bendix and make sure it can twist up and down the shaft easily. The battery must be very flat if it won't spin a loose starter up.....

[stag36587]

Clean the bendix and make sure it can twist up and down the shaft easily. The battery must be very flat if it won't spin a loose starter up.....

Yes indeed, especially as it's a new battery. I will give the starter motor a thorough clean - bendix seems to move nice and easiy so I'll be very disappointed if I get no winding up once the battery is charged!

I'll solder or weld up the join where I saw moisture.

[bmcecosse]

Don't worry about the moisture at the moment!

[kennatt]

I'll solder or weld up the join where I saw moisture........................................hmmmm don't even think about that Are you saying that the bendix dosent move back towards the body of the motor when you spin it is that what you mean

[stag36587]

I'll solder or weld up the join where I saw moisture........................................hmmmm don't even think about that Are you saying that the bendix dosent move back towards the body of the motor when you spin it is that what you mean

Well I can't leave it leaking but will investigate further once (if ever ) the engine gets started.

The battery was really too flat to gauge exactly what was happening with the bendix so I'll test again tomorrow. I'll also check static timing.

[bmcecosse]

You worry me when you keep going off at a tangent like this............ Concentrate on ONE problem at a time ! Let's get the starter motor turning the engine over first.... Worry about leaks/timing etc later once the engine is started!!

[stag36587]

Don't be worried - I think that's what I just said !!! Will refit starter and see what happens. If it still refuses to start then I will check timing (also suggested elsewhere in this thread).

And yes, if engine starts I will then investigate the leak.

[stag36587]

Thanks for suggestions so far guys. Well, starter motor cleaned and refitted and with a fully charged battery I am relieved that it turns the engine over although back to bangs and puff of smoke from manifold side of the engine that I got previously.

I've got healthy sparks at spark plugs and think I have leads correctly firing as. 1 3 4 2 ? Fuel pump also seems to be supplying fuel as it should to the carb.

I guess this must just leave a carb or timing issue?

[bmcecosse]

It's timing - move the leads round one step at a time to see if it starts....

[kennatt]

can we have a photo of the dizzy with the cap and plug leads fitted.with an indication of which lead goes to no 1. 2. 3.and 4.

[IslipMinor]

think I have leads correctly firing as. 1 3 4 2

1342 anti-clockwise looking at the distributor cap from the top?

[stag36587]

I found this diagram on the web and connected ignition leads as shown. The engine still wont start but the bangs and puffs have gone so thats progress. Is this diagram correct?[frame][/frame]